From mmassonnet at gmail.com  Tue Apr  1 09:11:35 2008
From: mmassonnet at gmail.com (Mike Massonnet)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:11:35 +0200
Subject: [Xfce4-commits] r26700 - mousepad/branches/nick_0_3/po
In-Reply-To: <4abe35490803311353y11f76de1mfa37217d4f7dfe6d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080331114616.54BF3F29D8@mocha.foo-projects.org>
	<4abe35490803311353y11f76de1mfa37217d4f7dfe6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080401071135.GH2195@failure.del>

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 10:53:55PM +0200, Nick Schermer wrote:
> 2008/3/31, Mike Massonnet <mmassonnet at xfce.org>:
> > Author: mmassonnet
> >  Date: 2008-03-31 11:46:16 +0000 (Mon, 31 Mar 2008)
> >  New Revision: 26700
> >
> >  Added:
> >    mousepad/branches/nick_0_3/po/fr.po
> >  Modified:
> >    mousepad/branches/nick_0_3/po/ChangeLog
> >    mousepad/branches/nick_0_3/po/LINGUAS
> >  Log:
> 
> I don't want any translations in my branch. It's not finished yet and
> people can start translating when it moves to trunk.

Ah, 'k.  I'll revert this one.
> 
> Nick

Cheers
mike

From enrico.troeger at uvena.de  Wed Apr  2 13:56:40 2008
From: enrico.troeger at uvena.de (Enrico =?UTF-8?B?VHLDtmdlcg==?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:56:40 +0200
Subject: Deprecated keys and values in desktop files
In-Reply-To: <47F15A4F.5070409@cornell.edu>
References: <20080330162924.e0949b99.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
	<1206903023.9625.23.camel@hidalgo> <20080331110156.5161359a@kepler>
	<20080331201257.03571b1d.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
	<47F15A4F.5070409@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <20080402135640.1f4d1410.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:40:31 -0700, "Brian J. Tarricone"
<bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:

> Enrico Tr?ger wrote:
> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:01:56 -0700, "Brian J. Tarricone"
> > <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:50:23 +0200 Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> >>
> >>> On dim, 2008-03-30 at 16:29 +0200, Enrico Tr?ger wrote:
> >>>> P.S.: Please don't tell me to open bug reports for each single
> >>>> package with a warning. I know it would be the better way but
> >>>> there are too many packages. I hope this will also help a bit to
> >>>> catch developers' eyes on this ;-).
> >>> The thing is, there's a lot of chance this will be forgotten if no
> >>> bugs are opened.
> >> ... and patches attached ^_~.
> > 
> > Oh come on. I generally support the idea of using a bug tracker for
> > problems, feature requests and patches.
> > But in this case, I was really hoping it's enough to bring it up
> > here, assumung that a few devs actually reading the list (more than
> > once in a month) and fix a single line in a single file instantly.
> 
> I read your email this morning.  I didn't have time to fix the single 
> file instantly.  I'm reading and replying to this email now.  I still 
> don't have time.  Likely I'll have forgotten it by the time I do have 
> time.  I just don't keep track of email very well.  I'm sorry, but 
> that's just how it is.
Yeah, sure. As I told bugtrackers are a good thing. Anyway, at some
point they are also hard to use, at least in this case where the same
thing applies to many packages. Maybe bugzilla provides a feature to
file a bug report to several components at once, I don't know this
feature and my resources don't allow me to search this for hours. We
all know, bugzilla isn't the most intuitive tool out there...;-).

> > Furthermore, I noticed it doesn't make much difference between using
> > the mailing list or the bugzilla, bugs and patches are sometimes
> > ignored on both ;-(.
> 
> Limited resources, limited time.  More *regular* *active*
> contributors with commit access would help.  But we don't have 'em.
Well yes. But even by the fact that there is more work to be done as
people have time to do it, should motivate to change something.
No idea what to change in detail but for general users(I'm not talking
about me) it might be a bit disappointing when they file a bug or add a
patch and there is no response at all.
Just saying: Hi, thanks for your feedback. I'll check it soon" would be
much more helpful than no response.

It's not that bad at all with Xfce, there are projects out there with
much more problems, anyway, it always can get improved :D.

To get back on topic: maybe I'll file a few bug reports to some apps in
a few days...in the meantime, I hope some more devs will read it and
ideally fix it ;-).

Regards,
Enrico

-- 
Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.key

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080402/88d74c4c/attachment.bin

From enrico.troeger at uvena.de  Wed Apr  2 13:57:02 2008
From: enrico.troeger at uvena.de (Enrico =?UTF-8?B?VHLDtmdlcg==?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:57:02 +0200
Subject: desktop-file pre-commit hook.
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0803301245p49815239u84d510df6706bc13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0803301245p49815239u84d510df6706bc13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080402135702.d933a8ee.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:45:19 +0200, "Stephan Arts" <stephan at xfce.org>
wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> In a response to the mail from enrico, I was wondering. Could we add a
> pre-commit hook on .desktop files just like we do for .po files?

This is a great idea.
But as Brian already told, the script should be take care
of .desktop.in files and possibly remove found "_" prefixes. You can't
pass them directly to desktop-file-validate, it doesn't like the
underscore prefixes. Maybe there are also some other things to take
care of.


Regards,
Enrico

-- 
Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.key
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080402/cccc0daf/attachment.bin

From mmassonnet at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 14:37:53 2008
From: mmassonnet at gmail.com (Mike Massonnet)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:37:53 +0200
Subject: Deprecated keys and values in desktop files
In-Reply-To: <20080402135640.1f4d1410.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
References: <20080330162924.e0949b99.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
	<1206903023.9625.23.camel@hidalgo> <20080331110156.5161359a@kepler>
	<20080331201257.03571b1d.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
	<47F15A4F.5070409@cornell.edu>
	<20080402135640.1f4d1410.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
Message-ID: <20080402123753.GJ2195@failure.del>

On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 01:56:40PM +0200, Enrico Tr?ger wrote:
> To get back on topic: maybe I'll file a few bug reports to some apps in
> a few days...in the meantime, I hope some more devs will read it and
> ideally fix it ;-).

Isn't it possible to fill one bug (something like a "general" component
for a "general" product), so that it makes it easier to just attach the
patches instead of duplicating the text of the bug?

That would easier the thing a lot of course.

> Regards,
> Enrico

mike

From alexander.toresson at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 14:45:28 2008
From: alexander.toresson at gmail.com (Alexander Toresson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 05:45:28 -0700
Subject: desktop-file pre-commit hook.
In-Reply-To: <20080402135702.d933a8ee.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
References: <74b8614e0803301245p49815239u84d510df6706bc13@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080402135702.d933a8ee.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
Message-ID: <b33ba6660804020545s52421566w4dd3223b92184fa0@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 4:57 AM, Enrico Tr?ger <enrico.troeger at uvena.de> wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:45:19 +0200, "Stephan Arts" <stephan at xfce.org>
>  wrote:
>
>
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > In a response to the mail from enrico, I was wondering. Could we add a
>  > pre-commit hook on .desktop files just like we do for .po files?
>
>  This is a great idea.
>  But as Brian already told, the script should be take care
>  of .desktop.in files and possibly remove found "_" prefixes. You can't
>  pass them directly to desktop-file-validate, it doesn't like the
>  underscore prefixes. Maybe there are also some other things to take
>  care of.
>
>
>  Regards,
>  Enrico
>
>  --
>  Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.key
>

Perhaps you could make it produce .desktop files from .desktop.in
files before validating them?

// Alexander

From enrico.troeger at uvena.de  Wed Apr  2 15:11:32 2008
From: enrico.troeger at uvena.de (Enrico =?UTF-8?B?VHLDtmdlcg==?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:11:32 +0200
Subject: Deprecated keys and values in desktop files
In-Reply-To: <20080402123753.GJ2195@failure.del>
References: <20080330162924.e0949b99.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
	<1206903023.9625.23.camel@hidalgo> <20080331110156.5161359a@kepler>
	<20080331201257.03571b1d.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
	<47F15A4F.5070409@cornell.edu>
	<20080402135640.1f4d1410.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
	<20080402123753.GJ2195@failure.del>
Message-ID: <20080402151132.7c1ab868.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:37:53 +0200, Mike Massonnet
<mmassonnet at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 01:56:40PM +0200, Enrico Tr?ger wrote:
> > To get back on topic: maybe I'll file a few bug reports to some
> > apps in a few days...in the meantime, I hope some more devs will
> > read it and ideally fix it ;-).
> 
> Isn't it possible to fill one bug (something like a "general"
> component for a "general" product), so that it makes it easier to
> just attach the patches instead of duplicating the text of the bug?

Maybe, but then the default assignees for the affected components
probably aren't notified. No idea, I don't know bugzilla so deeply...

Regards,
Enrico

-- 
Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.key
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080402/818a93fd/attachment.bin

From bodiak at gmx.de  Thu Apr  3 12:05:26 2008
From: bodiak at gmx.de (Christian M)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:05:26 +0200
Subject: idea: new menu editor for xfce
Message-ID: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty new here but I've used XFCE for about a year now.
It's really a great desktop environment and I would like to
contribute some code :)

Here is my idea:

project definition:
A new menu editor or an enhancement of the current one.
The software is able to create, organize and edit desktopfiles for xfce.
This way each user can costumize his system menu.

roadmap:
at first this program only manages the system menu.
later the menu system (and maybe the desktop icons)
 can be completely transfered to the freedesktop standard(?).

how:
the program uses the desktop-files in the ~/.local/share/applications/
directory.
If a "external" (outside this working dir) desktop-file should be changed
the tool will simply copy the file to it's working dir.
As the used dir always has the highest priority
this will overwrite the settings of other files with the same name.

features (similiar to gnomes alacarte):
-edit menu entries
-create menu entries
--add "locations" like in alacarte
-show a list of the available menu entries
-activate/deactivate entries
-delete costum entries
-show a list of the available and used categories

development:
I would like to use glade and anjunta for coding as this handles the
gtk code quite nicely and keeps it away from the other code.

I'm a bit new to programming in C but I would like to give it a try.

What do you think? Any recommendations?

cheers
MilesTeg

From stephan at xfce.org  Thu Apr  3 12:10:37 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:10:37 +0200
Subject: idea: new menu editor for xfce
In-Reply-To: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804030310s17715c41h59737e6996600c6c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Christian M <bodiak at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>  I'm pretty new here but I've used XFCE for about a year now.
>  It's really a great desktop environment and I would like to
>  contribute some code :)
>
>  Here is my idea:
>
>  project definition:
>  A new menu editor or an enhancement of the current one.
>  The software is able to create, organize and edit desktopfiles for xfce.
>  This way each user can costumize his system menu.
>
>  roadmap:
>  at first this program only manages the system menu.
>  later the menu system (and maybe the desktop icons)
>   can be completely transfered to the freedesktop standard(?).
>
>  how:
>  the program uses the desktop-files in the ~/.local/share/applications/
>  directory.
>  If a "external" (outside this working dir) desktop-file should be changed
>  the tool will simply copy the file to it's working dir.
>  As the used dir always has the highest priority
>  this will overwrite the settings of other files with the same name.
>
>  features (similiar to gnomes alacarte):
>  -edit menu entries
>  -create menu entries
>  --add "locations" like in alacarte
>  -show a list of the available menu entries
>  -activate/deactivate entries
>  -delete costum entries
>  -show a list of the available and used categories
>
>  development:
>  I would like to use glade and anjunta for coding as this handles the
>  gtk code quite nicely and keeps it away from the other code.
>
>  I'm a bit new to programming in C but I would like to give it a try.
>
>  What do you think? Any recommendations?

It is great that you want to write a new menu-editor. I would like to
point out to you that xfce 4.6 will come with a completely new menu
implementation. This makes the current menu-editor unusable and thus
obsolete.

Please take a look at libxfce4menu, it is the current backend library
which 'reads' the menu-files.

-
Stephan

From christian at twotoasts.de  Thu Apr  3 12:24:48 2008
From: christian at twotoasts.de (Christian Dywan)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:24:48 +0200
Subject: idea: new menu editor for xfce
In-Reply-To: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080403122448.50b9e740@twotoasts.de>

Am Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:05:26 +0200
schrieb "Christian M" <bodiak at gmx.de>:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm pretty new here but I've used XFCE for about a year now.
> It's really a great desktop environment and I would like to
> contribute some code :)
> 
> Here is my idea:
> 
> project definition:
> A new menu editor or an enhancement of the current one.
> The software is able to create, organize and edit desktopfiles for
> xfce. This way each user can costumize his system menu.
> 
> roadmap:
> at first this program only manages the system menu.
> later the menu system (and maybe the desktop icons)
>  can be completely transfered to the freedesktop standard(?).
> 
> how:
> the program uses the desktop-files in the ~/.local/share/applications/
> directory.
> If a "external" (outside this working dir) desktop-file should be
> changed the tool will simply copy the file to it's working dir.
> As the used dir always has the highest priority
> this will overwrite the settings of other files with the same name.
> 
> features (similiar to gnomes alacarte):
> -edit menu entries
> -create menu entries
> --add "locations" like in alacarte
> -show a list of the available menu entries
> -activate/deactivate entries
> -delete costum entries
> -show a list of the available and used categories
> 
> development:
> I would like to use glade and anjunta for coding as this handles the
> gtk code quite nicely and keeps it away from the other code.
> 
> I'm a bit new to programming in C but I would like to give it a try.
> 
> What do you think? Any recommendations?
> 
> cheers
> MilesTeg
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce4-dev mailing list
> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev

Hi MilesTeg,

that sounds like a pretty nice project. The current editor is pretty
limited in what you can do with it and editing files manually is not
too convenient especially for the majority of users who don't happen to
know all the freedesktop specs well enough.

I think a new editor is probably the better idea. I would find it nice
if you could look into making an interface that looks and behaves more
like the other settings apps so that it doesn't stand out so much.

I wonder whether it makes sense to look into recent Glib additions
regarding desktop file awareness. Since we are talking about a future
Xfce. But of course I don't know what Gtk/Glib that should target.

Yours,
    Christian

From bodiak at gmx.de  Thu Apr  3 14:35:55 2008
From: bodiak at gmx.de (Christian M)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:35:55 +0200
Subject: idea: new menu editor for xfce
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804030310s17715c41h59737e6996600c6c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>
	<74b8614e0804030310s17715c41h59737e6996600c6c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf669b6d0804030535x431f7660ubaf7c8a73ab599b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
>  It is great that you want to write a new menu-editor. I would like to
>  point out to you that xfce 4.6 will come with a completely new menu
>  implementation. This makes the current menu-editor unusable and thus
>  obsolete.
>
>  Please take a look at libxfce4menu, it is the current backend library
>  which 'reads' the menu-files.

I've already taken a look under the hood of xfce and it seemed pretty obvious
that skipping to one coherent system was planned. It actually confused me
quite a bit at first ;-)

I just had an idea: As this application would be written with the gtk toolkit
and uses the standard for menus it should also (with little tweaks) work as
a gnome app, right?

From stephan at xfce.org  Thu Apr  3 14:38:00 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:38:00 +0200
Subject: idea: new menu editor for xfce
In-Reply-To: <bf669b6d0804030535x431f7660ubaf7c8a73ab599b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>
	<74b8614e0804030310s17715c41h59737e6996600c6c@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf669b6d0804030535x431f7660ubaf7c8a73ab599b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804030538x19bb999bi622be11ca0773219@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Christian M <bodiak at gmx.de> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
>  >  It is great that you want to write a new menu-editor. I would like to
>  >  point out to you that xfce 4.6 will come with a completely new menu
>  >  implementation. This makes the current menu-editor unusable and thus
>  >  obsolete.
>  >
>  >  Please take a look at libxfce4menu, it is the current backend library
>  >  which 'reads' the menu-files.
>
>  I've already taken a look under the hood of xfce and it seemed pretty obvious
>  that skipping to one coherent system was planned. It actually confused me
>  quite a bit at first ;-)
>
>  I just had an idea: As this application would be written with the gtk toolkit
>  and uses the standard for menus it should also (with little tweaks) work as
>  a gnome app, right?

In theory, yes.

-
Stephan

From samuel.verstraete at gmail.com  Thu Apr  3 14:44:21 2008
From: samuel.verstraete at gmail.com (samuel)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:44:21 +0200
Subject: idea: new menu editor for xfce
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804030538x19bb999bi622be11ca0773219@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf669b6d0804030305g70b0742bh241b135a6d9c4a66@mail.gmail.com>
	<74b8614e0804030310s17715c41h59737e6996600c6c@mail.gmail.com>
	<bf669b6d0804030535x431f7660ubaf7c8a73ab599b@mail.gmail.com>
	<74b8614e0804030538x19bb999bi622be11ca0773219@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bc122a250804030544p7a625fc7q36611b2c406dcb39@mail.gmail.com>

if you do it right, your application should be desktop neutral.
in the sense that if you edit the menu that change will be reflected
to all DE's that support the freedesktop standard...

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Christian M <bodiak at gmx.de> wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
> >  >  It is great that you want to write a new menu-editor. I would like to
> >  >  point out to you that xfce 4.6 will come with a completely new menu
> >  >  implementation. This makes the current menu-editor unusable and thus
> >  >  obsolete.
> >  >
> >  >  Please take a look at libxfce4menu, it is the current backend library
> >  >  which 'reads' the menu-files.
> >
> >  I've already taken a look under the hood of xfce and it seemed pretty obvious
> >  that skipping to one coherent system was planned. It actually confused me
> >  quite a bit at first ;-)
> >
> >  I just had an idea: As this application would be written with the gtk toolkit
> >  and uses the standard for menus it should also (with little tweaks) work as
> >  a gnome app, right?
>
> In theory, yes.
>
> -
> Stephan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce4-dev mailing list
> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
>

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Sat Apr  5 00:57:10 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:57:10 -0700
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
Message-ID: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>

Hey all,

Moritz was kind enough to set up a sort of roadmap page to help gather 
in one place the things that need to be done before 4.6 can be released. 
  You can see it here:
http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46

I've filled in some information, but it's far from complete.

Devs: please fill in any information related to modules you maintain or 
work on actively.

Everyone else: Please don't edit it.  This isn't a place to nominate 
bugs or vent frustrations.  This is a place for devs to decide what's 
going to go into their modules for 4.6, and for users to get an idea of 
what's going on.

I've also added a "blocking4.6" flag to bugzilla.  Devs, you can set 
these yourselves (set them to '+').  Everyone else, you can request that 
they be set (set them to '?'), and a dev can grant or deny.  Ideally we 
can just stick a link to a bugzilla search for those flags to the "TODO 
for 4.6" sections on the roadmap to supplement the text.

	-brian

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Sat Apr  5 16:57:47 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 07:57:47 -0700
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <20080405075747.1a667a4d@kepler>

All,

Just a note...  Please try to use the same convention for filling in
the boxes.  "Ready for 4.6" should have a simple "Yes" or "No" and
nothing else.  The "Status" row should be one of "Not started",
"Experimental", "Unstable", "Alpha", "Beta", or "Stable", with possibly
a few variations.  Let's try to make this easy to read and consistent.

If there's work you're doing on a module that isn't for 4.6, it's ok to
note that as well (thanks Nick!), but it makes me think we might want
to have some sort of 'zoomed out' roadmap as well that's a bit more
long term.

God, roadmaps... I never thought we'd ever have one...

	-b

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:57:10 -0700 Brian J. Tarricone wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> Moritz was kind enough to set up a sort of roadmap page to help
> gather in one place the things that need to be done before 4.6 can be
> released. You can see it here:
> http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46
> 
> I've filled in some information, but it's far from complete.
> 
> Devs: please fill in any information related to modules you maintain
> or work on actively.
> 
> Everyone else: Please don't edit it.  This isn't a place to nominate 
> bugs or vent frustrations.  This is a place for devs to decide what's 
> going to go into their modules for 4.6, and for users to get an idea
> of what's going on.
> 
> I've also added a "blocking4.6" flag to bugzilla.  Devs, you can set 
> these yourselves (set them to '+').  Everyone else, you can request
> that they be set (set them to '?'), and a dev can grant or deny.
> Ideally we can just stick a link to a bugzilla search for those flags
> to the "TODO for 4.6" sections on the roadmap to supplement the text.
> 
> 	-brian
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce4-dev mailing list
> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
> 

From moe at xfce.org  Sat Apr  5 17:31:18 2008
From: moe at xfce.org (Moritz Heiber)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:31:18 +0200
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <20080405075747.1a667a4d@kepler>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<20080405075747.1a667a4d@kepler>
Message-ID: <20080405173118.7dddcdf7@xfce.org>

And everybody, please make sure you're using the same formating
guideline. The first column of the component table is aligned to the
right (dokuwiki syntax: leave two spaces at the left side of the column)
and the second column is aligned to the left (leave two spaces at the
opposite side of course). I changed the article accordingly.

Regards,

Moritz

PS: And for heaven's sake .. don't use japanese emoticons ala ^_^ .. it
makes dokuwiki go nuts :P

On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 07:57:47 -0700
"Brian J. Tarricone" <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:

> All,
> 
> Just a note...  Please try to use the same convention for filling in
> the boxes.  "Ready for 4.6" should have a simple "Yes" or "No" and
> nothing else.  The "Status" row should be one of "Not started",
> "Experimental", "Unstable", "Alpha", "Beta", or "Stable", with
> possibly a few variations.  Let's try to make this easy to read and
> consistent.
> 
> If there's work you're doing on a module that isn't for 4.6, it's ok
> to note that as well (thanks Nick!), but it makes me think we might
> want to have some sort of 'zoomed out' roadmap as well that's a bit
> more long term.
> 
> God, roadmaps... I never thought we'd ever have one...
> 
> 	-b
> 
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:57:10 -0700 Brian J. Tarricone wrote:
> 
> > Hey all,
> > 
> > Moritz was kind enough to set up a sort of roadmap page to help
> > gather in one place the things that need to be done before 4.6 can
> > be released. You can see it here:
> > http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46
> > 
> > I've filled in some information, but it's far from complete.
> > 
> > Devs: please fill in any information related to modules you maintain
> > or work on actively.
> > 
> > Everyone else: Please don't edit it.  This isn't a place to
> > nominate bugs or vent frustrations.  This is a place for devs to
> > decide what's going to go into their modules for 4.6, and for users
> > to get an idea of what's going on.
> > 
> > I've also added a "blocking4.6" flag to bugzilla.  Devs, you can
> > set these yourselves (set them to '+').  Everyone else, you can
> > request that they be set (set them to '?'), and a dev can grant or
> > deny. Ideally we can just stick a link to a bugzilla search for
> > those flags to the "TODO for 4.6" sections on the roadmap to
> > supplement the text.
> > 
> > 	-brian
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xfce4-dev mailing list
> > Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
> > http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce4-dev mailing list
> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev


-- 
GPG public key B189E8C8
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080405/82fc97fe/signature-0001.bin

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Sat Apr  5 17:43:31 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:43:31 -0700
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <20080405173118.7dddcdf7@xfce.org>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu> <20080405075747.1a667a4d@kepler>
	<20080405173118.7dddcdf7@xfce.org>
Message-ID: <20080405084331.7c2d1724@kepler>

On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:31:18 +0200 Moritz Heiber wrote:

> PS: And for heaven's sake .. don't use japanese emoticons ala ^_^ ..
> it makes dokuwiki go nuts :P

Er... whoops... my bad ^_~

	-b

From fourdan at gmail.com  Sun Apr  6 10:33:18 2008
From: fourdan at gmail.com (Olivier Fourdan)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:33:18 +0100
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all.

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>  Moritz was kind enough to set up a sort of roadmap page to help gather
>  in one place the things that need to be done before 4.6 can be released.
>   You can see it here:
>  http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46

That's really great and much, much needed. I would like to take this
opportunity to discuss the way we are  I am not sure it addresses one
of the main concern I have with our development scheme.

Don't shoot yet, let me explain :) we are a very small group of
developers with very little time, so placing the bar too high may
cause severe delays in the releases cycle and may discourage some of
us.

Wouldn't it better to choose a time based release cycle, a date we all
agree so that we can then decide what can goes in and what cannot,
depending on each developers availability and agenda.

If something cannot make it in tome for 4.6, no big deal, it will
hopefully make it in 4.8 but at least we shall have 4.6 out before
everybody forgets about Xfce. But since we all know and agree on the
date, we can arrange to make 4.6 stable even if this is not as feature
rich as it was initially planned,

What do you guys think? Please note that this is not incompatible with
current roadmap, it is just that I would like to see some kind of date
in this roadmap otherwise we'll end up doing the same as with 4.4, be
more than 1 year beyond schedule (even if schedule do not mean much
for us, it's still important I think).

Cheers,
Olivier.

From stephan at xfce.org  Sun Apr  6 12:07:33 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:07:33 +0200
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804060307t199d7510hd0d1bd6c4a06943c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Olivier Fourdan <fourdan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> >  Moritz was kind enough to set up a sort of roadmap page to help gather
> >  in one place the things that need to be done before 4.6 can be released.
> >   You can see it here:
> >  http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46
>
> That's really great and much, much needed. I would like to take this
> opportunity to discuss the way we are  I am not sure it addresses one
> of the main concern I have with our development scheme.
>
> Don't shoot yet, let me explain :) we are a very small group of
> developers with very little time, so placing the bar too high may
> cause severe delays in the releases cycle and may discourage some of
> us.
>
> Wouldn't it better to choose a time based release cycle, a date we all
> agree so that we can then decide what can goes in and what cannot,
> depending on each developers availability and agenda.
>
> If something cannot make it in tome for 4.6, no big deal, it will
> hopefully make it in 4.8 but at least we shall have 4.6 out before
> everybody forgets about Xfce. But since we all know and agree on the
> date, we can arrange to make 4.6 stable even if this is not as feature
> rich as it was initially planned,
>
> What do you guys think? Please note that this is not incompatible with
> current roadmap, it is just that I would like to see some kind of date
> in this roadmap otherwise we'll end up doing the same as with 4.4, be
> more than 1 year beyond schedule (even if schedule do not mean much
> for us, it's still important I think).

I can not agree more :-)

I have some ideas about how the configuration-dialogs can be improved.
But trying to write those for 4.6 would probably push back the release
further. Therefore I agree with Brian that this is best to be
considered for 4.8. As an alternative I will import my code to the
goodies repositories (xfce4-settings-manager or something), you can
then follow its development, and comment at it. And we can discuss if
it is something for 4.8 or not.

A fixed release-date (like once a year, I doubt 6-months is doable for
us), will increase the exposure of xfce. Not only that, but it makes
it easier for us to hold off features for future versions. When you
take a look at the changes between 4.2 > 4.4 and 4.4 > 4.6, after each
release we have rewritten at least one component from scratch. In
general these changes are all improvements. But such huge changes come
with the price we are all to familiar with. The release is postponed.

When we pick a release-date, say: "November '08", then it we can pick
dates for feature-freezes, string-freezes and beta releases. I think
it makes developing xfce more fun, because it makes us see the fruits
of our labour sooner then is the case now. The 4.4 release was
'delayed' for over a year (as far as we can speak of any delay, since
we haven't missed a deadline ^_~). And we are currently developing 4.6
for over a year, with no release in sight (yet).

I'd say, pick a date and work towards that. And as long as there is no
'blocking' bug open at that time, push the release.

>
> Cheers,
> Olivier.


Regards,
Stephan

From nickschermer at gmail.com  Sun Apr  6 12:16:22 2008
From: nickschermer at gmail.com (Nick Schermer)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:16:22 +0200
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804060307t199d7510hd0d1bd6c4a06943c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
	<74b8614e0804060307t199d7510hd0d1bd6c4a06943c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4abe35490804060316v176f45f6gb65765892fb0555c@mail.gmail.com>

2008/4/6, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org>:
>  I have some ideas about how the configuration-dialogs can be improved.
>  But trying to write those for 4.6 would probably push back the release
>  further. Therefore I agree with Brian that this is best to be
>  considered for 4.8. As an alternative I will import my code to the
>  goodies repositories (xfce4-settings-manager or something), you can
>  then follow its development, and comment at it. And we can discuss if
>  it is something for 4.8 or not.

Please put it in the main repo as a branch somewhere.

Nick

From nickschermer at gmail.com  Sun Apr  6 12:21:10 2008
From: nickschermer at gmail.com (Nick Schermer)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:21:10 +0200
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4abe35490804060321n113a37cah4592ed2131c255f0@mail.gmail.com>

2008/4/6, Olivier Fourdan <fourdan at gmail.com>:
>  What do you guys think? Please note that this is not incompatible with
>  current roadmap, it is just that I would like to see some kind of date
>  in this roadmap otherwise we'll end up doing the same as with 4.4, be
>  more than 1 year beyond schedule (even if schedule do not mean much
>  for us, it's still important I think).

You've got my vote.

Nick

From jwcampbell at gmail.com  Sun Apr  6 19:54:03 2008
From: jwcampbell at gmail.com (Jim Campbell)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:54:03 -0500
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
Message-ID: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I'm writing because I noticed no mention of Xfce documentation on the
roadmap, and wanted to get your thoughts.  From what I understand,
developers have been resistant to having a single documentation repository.
I do not know all of the reasons for this, but thought now might be a good
idea to bring up the topic.

As a person who'd like to contribute to documentation, I find the many
documentation repositories a big barrier to entry.  I posted to the mailing
list about a month ago about wanting to contribute to documentation efforts,
but got no response (it's ok . . . I'm sure you get a lot of people who say
they'd like to help).

However, I'd be willing to put together a roadmap to collect the current
documentation, organize it, and identify areas for improvement, and then
work to fill those gaps.  As things stand now, though, it's difficult to
know where to proceed.

So you know, I come from the Xubuntu team, and was the primary contributor
throughout the Hardy release cycle [1].  I have good docbook, organization,
and writing skills, and would like to contribute to upstream efforts.

Again, I understand that developers have been resistant to changing their
approach to documentation.  I have a day job, and I don't want to have to
worry about too much stuff, either.  I am willing to contribute to something
like this, though.  Please let me know your thoughts.  Thanks,

Jim

[1] https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/xubuntu-hardy
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080406/632eb178/attachment.html

From imnotb at gmail.com  Sun Apr  6 20:13:11 2008
From: imnotb at gmail.com (Vincent)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 20:13:11 +0200
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <749ebd440804061113p1e6bd101i3f736ed610670b85@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/08, Jim Campbell <jwcampbell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I'm writing because I noticed no mention of Xfce documentation on the
> roadmap, and wanted to get your thoughts.  From what I understand,
> developers have been resistant to having a single documentation repository.
> I do not know all of the reasons for this, but thought now might be a good
> idea to bring up the topic.
>
> As a person who'd like to contribute to documentation, I find the many
> documentation repositories a big barrier to entry.  I posted to the mailing
> list about a month ago about wanting to contribute to documentation efforts,
> but got no response (it's ok . . . I'm sure you get a lot of people who say
> they'd like to help).
>
> However, I'd be willing to put together a roadmap to collect the current
> documentation, organize it, and identify areas for improvement, and then
> work to fill those gaps.  As things stand now, though, it's difficult to
> know where to proceed.
>
> So you know, I come from the Xubuntu team, and was the primary contributor
> throughout the Hardy release cycle [1].  I have good docbook, organization,
> and writing skills, and would like to contribute to upstream efforts.
>
> Again, I understand that developers have been resistant to changing their
> approach to documentation.  I have a day job, and I don't want to have to
> worry about too much stuff, either.  I am willing to contribute to something
> like this, though.  Please let me know your thoughts.  Thanks,
>

I'd like to point out that Jim has been doing an excellent job on the
Xubuntu documentation, so if he is offering his help it'd be quite the
missed opportunity not to accept it. :)

Jim
>
> [1] https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/xubuntu-hardy<https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/xubuntu-hardy>
>

Best,
-- 
Vincent
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080406/ab45d77e/attachment-0001.html

From pollux at xfce.org  Sun Apr  6 21:16:44 2008
From: pollux at xfce.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Wauthy)
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:16:44 +0200
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>

Le dimanche 06 avril 2008 ? 12:54 -0500, Jim Campbell a ?crit :
> Hi All,
> 
Hi

> As a person who'd like to contribute to documentation, I find the many
> documentation repositories a big barrier to entry.  
> 
> Again, I understand that developers have been resistant to changing
> their approach to documentation.  I have a day job, and I don't want
> to have to worry about too much stuff, either.  I am willing to
> contribute to something like this, though.  Please let me know your
> thoughts.  Thanks,

The current layout is motivated by the modular nature of Xfce and
therefore the package of one component has to contain its own
documentation. The simplest way to do that is to have a documentation
directory in each module of Xfce. 

If you have a better idea that keeps the modular aspect of things in
mind. I'm sure we are all ready to read and discuss it.

-- 
Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy <pollux at xfce.org>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: Ceci est une partie de message
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?=
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080406/e125ebc1/attachment.bin

From stephan at xfce.org  Sun Apr  6 21:29:56 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:29:56 +0200
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804061229x6998b286h629f87a5c1e6c148@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:16 PM, Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy <pollux at xfce.org> wrote:
> Le dimanche 06 avril 2008 ? 12:54 -0500, Jim Campbell a ?crit :
>  > Hi All,
>  >
>  Hi
>
>
>  > As a person who'd like to contribute to documentation, I find the many
>  > documentation repositories a big barrier to entry.
>  >
>
> > Again, I understand that developers have been resistant to changing
>  > their approach to documentation.  I have a day job, and I don't want
>  > to have to worry about too much stuff, either.  I am willing to
>  > contribute to something like this, though.  Please let me know your
>  > thoughts.  Thanks,
>
>  The current layout is motivated by the modular nature of Xfce and
>  therefore the package of one component has to contain its own
>  documentation. The simplest way to do that is to have a documentation
>  directory in each module of Xfce.
>
>  If you have a better idea that keeps the modular aspect of things in
>  mind. I'm sure we are all ready to read and discuss it.

I think that we could start by adding a modules/trunk-docs folder in
svn, just like we have trunk-po for translators. This should lower the
entry-barrier a little.

-
Stephan Arts

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Sun Apr  6 22:38:52 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:38:52 -0700
Subject: Website/Forum/BugTracking Integration ?
In-Reply-To: <28f9eb3e0804061115u24e6a1b8l7a958c08f3cafad2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28f9eb3e0804061115u24e6a1b8l7a958c08f3cafad2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080406133852.1d863ea9@kepler>

(FYI: discussion of this nature is better suited to the xfce4-dev
list. Please follow up there.)

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:15:26 +0300 Alexandru Bucur wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone else had this idea.
> Imho it would be a nice thing.
> One such app that could integrate everything could be drupal with the
> project management module (even if it's not as good as trac it does it
> job nicely) + forum (yes i know that drupal's forum is a bit retarded
> but then again there are some modules that make it to be decent for
> normal use) + wiki (well drupal's content is something like a wiki. it
> doesn't have the http://blabla.com/i-want-a-new-page thing to create a
> new page but i think there's a module for that :P) + the book module
> so the documentation book would be easier to update.

My experience with Drupal has been nothing short of awful.  It's a
*huge* piece of software, overly complex to configure, the
permissions/rights management system is a confusing nightmare, it's
difficult to upgrade without breaking things, and tries to be too
generic such that it takes a lot of work to get the look that you want
for the website.  The in-line page editing tools are crap as well.  IMO,
Drupal is simply not an option.

I've never admin-ed a trac-based site, but from the user perspective, I
like trac.  I haven't really done a formal evaluation of it, so I don't
know if, e.g., its bug tracker has the features that we need.  I do
like that the bug tracker supports wiki-ish syntax.  I'd be interested
in looking into trac a bit more, time permitting.

> (even if it does mean that everybody needs to reset their password)

This sounds like a huge pain; I'd rather not force everyone to do this
unless it would represent a significant improvement.

> and i can help with the porting of articles from the wiki/book to the
> drupal one.
> Also i can help with the theming even if i can only code it. I I suck
> at designing stuff :).
> Thanks for your time.

Sounds like a big job.  At the risk of sounding a bit like a dick: why
should we believe that you'd follow through with this?  I don't recall
seeing you post here before (indeed, I see no posts at least as far
back as a year ago).  It's fine to suggest big ideas, but it's hard to
take them seriously without having backing from someone who we know
will follow through and commit to the time and work involved.

	-brian

From jannis at xfce.org  Sun Apr  6 22:38:12 2008
From: jannis at xfce.org (Jannis Pohlmann)
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 22:38:12 +0200
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080406223812.0e72c98f@84.200.240.9>

Am Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:33:18 +0100
schrieb "Olivier Fourdan" <fourdan at gmail.com>:

> Hi all.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Brian J. Tarricone
> <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> >  Moritz was kind enough to set up a sort of roadmap page to help
> > gather in one place the things that need to be done before 4.6 can
> > be released. You can see it here:
> >  http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46
> 
> That's really great and much, much needed. I would like to take this
> opportunity to discuss the way we are  I am not sure it addresses one
> of the main concern I have with our development scheme.
> 
> Don't shoot yet, let me explain :) we are a very small group of
> developers with very little time, so placing the bar too high may
> cause severe delays in the releases cycle and may discourage some of
> us.
> 
> Wouldn't it better to choose a time based release cycle, a date we all
> agree so that we can then decide what can goes in and what cannot,
> depending on each developers availability and agenda.
> 
> If something cannot make it in tome for 4.6, no big deal, it will
> hopefully make it in 4.8 but at least we shall have 4.6 out before
> everybody forgets about Xfce. But since we all know and agree on the
> date, we can arrange to make 4.6 stable even if this is not as feature
> rich as it was initially planned,
> 
> What do you guys think? Please note that this is not incompatible with
> current roadmap, it is just that I would like to see some kind of date
> in this roadmap otherwise we'll end up doing the same as with 4.4, be
> more than 1 year beyond schedule (even if schedule do not mean much
> for us, it's still important I think).

I'm fine with a time-based release schedule as long as there is some
time to concentrate on fixing bugs after the 'feature freeze'. I don't
have much time these days and I guess half-implemented-but-working-code
like libxfce4menu would be less critical with shorter release cycles.

  - Jannis
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080406/6e74cbd2/signature.bin

From nightmorph at gentoo.org  Sun Apr  6 22:48:22 2008
From: nightmorph at gentoo.org (Josh Saddler)
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 13:48:22 -0700
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804061229x6998b286h629f87a5c1e6c148@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>	<1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
	<74b8614e0804061229x6998b286h629f87a5c1e6c148@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47F93716.6000508@gentoo.org>

Stephan Arts wrote:
> I think that we could start by adding a modules/trunk-docs folder in
> svn, just like we have trunk-po for translators. This should lower the
> entry-barrier a little.

I'd like that a lot! I keep trying to checkout the documentation so I 
can start working on it, but it really is discouraging when it's in a 
hundred different places. A centralized repo would be so much easier to 
contribute to.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080406/97304840/signature.bin

From botsie at xfce.org  Mon Apr  7 08:08:49 2008
From: botsie at xfce.org (Biju Chacko)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:38:49 +0530
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47F9BA71.8080302@xfce.org>

Olivier Fourdan wrote:
> Wouldn't it better to choose a time based release cycle, a date we all
> agree so that we can then decide what can goes in and what cannot,
> depending on each developers availability and agenda.
> 
> If something cannot make it in tome for 4.6, no big deal, it will
> hopefully make it in 4.8 but at least we shall have 4.6 out before
> everybody forgets about Xfce. But since we all know and agree on the
> date, we can arrange to make 4.6 stable even if this is not as feature
> rich as it was initially planned,

This has worked well for gnome and the linux kernel.

-- b

From kautto.juha at kolumbus.fi  Mon Apr  7 11:49:51 2008
From: kautto.juha at kolumbus.fi (juha)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 12:49:51 +0300
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47F9EE3F.4050705@kolumbus.fi>

Olivier Fourdan kirjoitti:
> Hi all.
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>   
>>  Moritz was kind enough to set up a sort of roadmap page to help gather
>>  in one place the things that need to be done before 4.6 can be released.
>>   You can see it here:
>>  http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46
>>     
>
> Wouldn't it better to choose a time based release cycle, a date we all
> agree so that we can then decide what can goes in and what cannot,
> depending on each developers availability and agenda.
>
> What do you guys think? 
>   
Excellent idea.
+1 from me.
Would help a lot development of Orage to know when the stop
adding new features and start real quality testing.

/Juha

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Mon Apr  7 19:42:06 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:42:06 -0700
Subject: 4.6 roadmap of sorts
In-Reply-To: <47F9BA71.8080302@xfce.org>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
	<47F9BA71.8080302@xfce.org>
Message-ID: <47FA5CEE.1090501@cornell.edu>

Biju Chacko wrote:
> Olivier Fourdan wrote:
>> Wouldn't it better to choose a time based release cycle, a date we all
>> agree so that we can then decide what can goes in and what cannot,
>> depending on each developers availability and agenda.
>>
>> If something cannot make it in tome for 4.6, no big deal, it will
>> hopefully make it in 4.8 but at least we shall have 4.6 out before
>> everybody forgets about Xfce. But since we all know and agree on the
>> date, we can arrange to make 4.6 stable even if this is not as feature
>> rich as it was initially planned,
> 
> This has worked well for gnome and the linux kernel.

... both of which have many more committed, reliable, full-time 
resources than Xfce does.  Or rather, they actually have committed, 
reliable, full-time resources, whereas Xfce does not.

I'm not opposed to a time-based release schedule on principle (clearly 
it *does* work for some projects, and quite well), but I question if 
we'll still be able to do quality releases and stick to the schedule.  I 
know I can't commit too far in advance to a particular release window, 
and if we're going to try to schedule the betas, RCs, and then the 
final, I can't be sure I'd be around to fix bugs discovered as fast as 
is necessary to hit the target dates.  I'd imagine that no one else 
would be able to commit to this either.

Though I guess a time-based release schedule that only specifies a 
feature freeze and maybe sets a loose release date estimate might work. 
  The main problem as I see it is that we just hack on whatever looks 
fun, and keep adding stuff on and off, and if we never have a release 
date in mind, we're never going to stop and concentrate on stabilising.

So... anybody want to hack up another wiki page with some milestone 
dates, or at least a place where we can fill them in?  Let's make it 
look formal enough so we'd feel guilty for not following it ^_~.

	-brian

From jackloom at gmail.com  Tue Apr  8 00:21:48 2008
From: jackloom at gmail.com (Jack Loom)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:21:48 -0400
Subject: Website/Forum/BugTracking Integration ?
In-Reply-To: <20080406133852.1d863ea9@kepler>
References: <28f9eb3e0804061115u24e6a1b8l7a958c08f3cafad2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080406133852.1d863ea9@kepler>
Message-ID: <e7e154f10804071521w65efd788n26773e9b1d8bb84d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I was thinking to write some question as first post, relative at how I can
participate on the developing, or what could be the process for new dev.
contributors; but I think I can start posting a follow up relative to Trac
based on the experience I have on it.

On the VFX studio I work we run different R&D projects at the same time,
some on short terms, some on more long terms.
We introduced Trac two months ago after using a python based set of scripts
that was a bridge between the creation of a new project on the filesystem
and in svn, the creation of the relative bugzilla page, the setup of
relative mailing lists an the possible publication of the documentations of
the company wiki.

I can say that the system was working fine, but after different discussion
and the idea to add more modules at the system, we decide to move to Trac.
We founded really easy to maintain and the python back-end makes the system
really a flexible solution. Even if is my first post, I make me available
for a possible setup or any question relative at experience on it ...

thx

Jack





On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu>
wrote:

> (FYI: discussion of this nature is better suited to the xfce4-dev
> list. Please follow up there.)
>
> On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:15:26 +0300 Alexandru Bucur wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if anyone else had this idea.
> > Imho it would be a nice thing.
> > One such app that could integrate everything could be drupal with the
> > project management module (even if it's not as good as trac it does it
> > job nicely) + forum (yes i know that drupal's forum is a bit retarded
> > but then again there are some modules that make it to be decent for
> > normal use) + wiki (well drupal's content is something like a wiki. it
> > doesn't have the http://blabla.com/i-want-a-new-page thing to create a
> > new page but i think there's a module for that :P) + the book module
> > so the documentation book would be easier to update.
>
> My experience with Drupal has been nothing short of awful.  It's a
> *huge* piece of software, overly complex to configure, the
> permissions/rights management system is a confusing nightmare, it's
> difficult to upgrade without breaking things, and tries to be too
> generic such that it takes a lot of work to get the look that you want
> for the website.  The in-line page editing tools are crap as well.  IMO,
> Drupal is simply not an option.
>
> I've never admin-ed a trac-based site, but from the user perspective, I
> like trac.  I haven't really done a formal evaluation of it, so I don't
> know if, e.g., its bug tracker has the features that we need.  I do
> like that the bug tracker supports wiki-ish syntax.  I'd be interested
> in looking into trac a bit more, time permitting.
>
> > (even if it does mean that everybody needs to reset their password)
>
> This sounds like a huge pain; I'd rather not force everyone to do this
> unless it would represent a significant improvement.
>
> > and i can help with the porting of articles from the wiki/book to the
> > drupal one.
> > Also i can help with the theming even if i can only code it. I I suck
> > at designing stuff :).
> > Thanks for your time.
>
> Sounds like a big job.  At the risk of sounding a bit like a dick: why
> should we believe that you'd follow through with this?  I don't recall
> seeing you post here before (indeed, I see no posts at least as far
> back as a year ago).  It's fine to suggest big ideas, but it's hard to
> take them seriously without having backing from someone who we know
> will follow through and commit to the time and work involved.
>
>        -brian
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce4-dev mailing list
> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080407/ebfac90b/attachment.html

From enrico.troeger at uvena.de  Tue Apr  8 14:34:12 2008
From: enrico.troeger at uvena.de (Enrico =?UTF-8?B?VHLDtmdlcg==?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:34:12 +0200
Subject: Broken xfce4-about / Maybe bug in libxfce4util
Message-ID: <20080408143412.1229017a.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>

Hi all,

I was just about writing a German localized version of the Info text in
xfce4-about. While testing I noticed it isn't used at all.

After reading the code to get an idea what's going wrong, I noticed
something strange in xfce_localize_path_internal()
(libxfce4util/trunk/libxfce4util/xfce-i18n.c:95).
There is a check:

if (G_LIKELY (lang != NULL && strchr (lang, '/') != NULL))

I don't understand why lang should contain a '/'. This is why it
doesn't work for me. My locale is "de_DE.UTF-8".

If I run xfce4-about with
LANG=de_DE.UTF-8/ xfce4-about
it works because the check for the '/' is TRUE and the localized
version is used. But when are '/' are used in locales? I've never seen
this before.

Is this a bug or am I missing something?

Regards,
Enrico

-- 
Get my GPG key from http://www.uvena.de/pub.key
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080408/ab36e8d6/attachment.bin

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Tue Apr  8 19:33:30 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:33:30 -0700
Subject: Broken xfce4-about / Maybe bug in libxfce4util
In-Reply-To: <20080408143412.1229017a.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
References: <20080408143412.1229017a.enrico.troeger@uvena.de>
Message-ID: <47FBAC6A.8050902@cornell.edu>

Enrico Tr?ger wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I was just about writing a German localized version of the Info text in
> xfce4-about. While testing I noticed it isn't used at all.
> 
> After reading the code to get an idea what's going wrong, I noticed
> something strange in xfce_localize_path_internal()
> (libxfce4util/trunk/libxfce4util/xfce-i18n.c:95).
> There is a check:
> 
> if (G_LIKELY (lang != NULL && strchr (lang, '/') != NULL))
> 
> I don't understand why lang should contain a '/'. This is why it
> doesn't work for me. My locale is "de_DE.UTF-8".
> 
> If I run xfce4-about with
> LANG=de_DE.UTF-8/ xfce4-about
> it works because the check for the '/' is TRUE and the localized
> version is used. But when are '/' are used in locales? I've never seen
> this before.
> 
> Is this a bug or am I missing something?

That's pretty strange... I think Benny wrote that code; maybe he can 
shed some light on it.

	-brian


From jwcampbell at gmail.com  Tue Apr  8 21:44:16 2008
From: jwcampbell at gmail.com (Jim Campbell)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:44:16 -0500
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
Message-ID: <cc5454020804081244s492df454mf76a51a04cd17074@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jean-Fran?ois,

On 4/6/08, Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy <pollux at xfce.org> wrote:
>
> Le dimanche 06 avril 2008 ? 12:54 -0500, Jim Campbell a ?crit :
> > Hi All,
> >
> The current layout is motivated by the modular nature of Xfce and
> therefore the package of one component has to contain its own
> documentation. The simplest way to do that is to have a documentation
> directory in each module of Xfce.
>
> If you have a better idea that keeps the modular aspect of things in
> mind. I'm sure we are all ready to read and discuss it.


Would Stephan's suggestion to create a modules/trunk-docs folder address
this concern for you?  I could imagine a trunk-docs folder containing a
folder with documentation for each component, and then those documentation
files being copied to the appropriate component's doc folder prior to
release.

I'm not sure how elegant you'll see this as a solution, but having a central
repository would make things easier for documentors to access and work on,
and keeping the documentation folders within each component's SVN folder
would maintain the modularity of the components.

Let me know if you think that this would be a workable approach, or if you
have any problems with this.  Thanks,

Jim
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080408/c2047ae3/attachment-0001.html

From alexander.toresson at gmail.com  Tue Apr  8 21:50:17 2008
From: alexander.toresson at gmail.com (Alexander Toresson)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 21:50:17 +0200
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <cc5454020804081244s492df454mf76a51a04cd17074@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
	<cc5454020804081244s492df454mf76a51a04cd17074@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b33ba6660804081250k4a6f6091v204ba613c1aad956@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Jim Campbell <jwcampbell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Would Stephan's suggestion to create a modules/trunk-docs folder address
> this concern for you?  I could imagine a trunk-docs folder containing a
> folder with documentation for each component, and then those documentation
> files being copied to the appropriate component's doc folder prior to
> release.
>

Stefan's suggestion would make copying unnecessary, as it would just
involve creating a directory of links into the doc folders of the
different projects. So you commit in one place, and it appears in
both. Well, sort of.

// Alexander

From pollux at xfce.org  Tue Apr  8 22:28:12 2008
From: pollux at xfce.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Wauthy)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:28:12 +0200
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <cc5454020804081244s492df454mf76a51a04cd17074@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
	<cc5454020804081244s492df454mf76a51a04cd17074@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1207686492.25136.8.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>

Le mardi 08 avril 2008 ? 14:44 -0500, Jim Campbell a ?crit :
> Hi Jean-Fran?ois,
> 
Hi


> Would Stephan's suggestion to create a modules/trunk-docs folder
> address this concern for you?

Yes, it certainly does. 

> I could imagine a trunk-docs folder containing a folder with
> documentation for each component, and then those documentation files
> being copied to the appropriate component's doc folder prior to
> release.
>  
Like Alexander already replied there won't be any copying required when
using a trunk-doc 'svn:externals' folder.

> I'm not sure how elegant you'll see this as a solution, but having a
> central repository would make things easier for documentors to access
> and work on, and keeping the documentation folders within each
> component's SVN folder would maintain the modularity of the
> components.  

Practically this is not a new repository, or folder in the repository.
It is just a folder with special instruction telling which folder to go
check out elsewhere. This way it can look like a unique folder
containing all doc folders to you.

The only restriction is on committing, you have to commit in each
external folder separately because Subversion does not support a global
commit on externals. But so far, the permissions of the repository does
not allow commit in the modules anyway.

> Let me know if you think that this would be a workable approach, or if
> you have any problems with this.  Thanks,

It is a workable approach but it will require some work to merge patches
against several components in the trunk-doc module into the main
repository since the structure is a bit different (we have similar
issues with the translations).

I won't have time to do it before tomorrow evening (CEST), if anyone
wants to it before that, feel free but just answer this mail to let
everyone knows it's done.

-- 
Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy <pollux at xfce.org>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: Ceci est une partie de message
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?=
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080408/ab1de325/attachment.bin

From stephan at xfce.org  Tue Apr  8 22:30:49 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:30:49 +0200
Subject: AccessX Daemon
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804081330n146eed0fved670a6048347859@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

While working on the XSETTINGS daemon I remembered a piece of code I once wrote.

It is an AccessX daemon, it listens for XKBEvents and sends a message
to the notification-daemon when sticky-keys are toggled.

Currently it is just a few lines of code doing very little, but it
could be a boilerplate for a system which gives a user graphical
feedback whenever he is messing with AccessX stuff.

1) run notification-daemon
2) run accessx-daemon
3) (check if sticky-keys are enabled)
4) press <shift> 5 times.
5) see lovely notifications

Please tell me what you think :-)

-
Stephan

From stephan at xfce.org  Tue Apr  8 22:37:34 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:37:34 +0200
Subject: AccessX Daemon
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804081330n146eed0fved670a6048347859@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0804081330n146eed0fved670a6048347859@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804081337m7a20010amc52564f6ab0d13d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  While working on the XSETTINGS daemon I remembered a piece of code I once wrote.
>
>  It is an AccessX daemon, it listens for XKBEvents and sends a message
>  to the notification-daemon when sticky-keys are toggled.
>
>  Currently it is just a few lines of code doing very little, but it
>  could be a boilerplate for a system which gives a user graphical
>  feedback whenever he is messing with AccessX stuff.
>
>  1) run notification-daemon
>  2) run accessx-daemon
>  3) (check if sticky-keys are enabled)
>  4) press <shift> 5 times.
>  5) see lovely notifications
>
>  Please tell me what you think :-)
>
>  -
>  Stephan
>

You can download the source at
http://mocha.foo-projects.org/~stephan/accessx_daemon-0.0.1.tar.bz2.

-
Stephan

From piterpk at terra.com.br  Wed Apr  9 01:50:09 2008
From: piterpk at terra.com.br (Piter PUNK)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:50:09 -0300
Subject: Configuration Dialogs
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804060307t199d7510hd0d1bd6c4a06943c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
	<74b8614e0804060307t199d7510hd0d1bd6c4a06943c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47FC04B1.5060502@terra.com.br>

Stephan Arts wrote:
> I have some ideas about how the configuration-dialogs can be improved.
> But trying to write those for 4.6 would probably push back the release
> further. Therefore I agree with Brian that this is best to be
> considered for 4.8. As an alternative I will import my code to the
> goodies repositories (xfce4-settings-manager or something), you can
> then follow its development, and comment at it. And we can discuss if
> it is something for 4.8 or not.

Hmmmm... think about flexible geometry or scroll bars! -:)

Some configuration window are very hard to use in small screens,
like Asus eeePC and Intel ClassmatePC. And probably those small
machines will became more popular.

I use ClassmatePC and have problems to reach the "OK" and "Cancel"
buttons. Well... and some others that i don't remember now. Probably
scroll bars can solve it -:)

Piter PUNK
-- 
     |        E-Mail: piterpk at terra.com.br        (personal)
    .|.               roberto.batista at ntux.com.br (professional)
    /V\
   // \\      UIN:116043354  Homepage:http://piterpunk.info02.com.br
  /(   )\
   ^`~'^         ----> Slackware Linux - The Best One! <----
  #105432

From pollux at xfce.org  Wed Apr  9 15:49:52 2008
From: pollux at xfce.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Wauthy)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:49:52 +0200
Subject: 4.6 documentation efforts
In-Reply-To: <1207686492.25136.8.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
References: <cc5454020804061054p2cec7231la7513ab39bb6509d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207509404.6560.4.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
	<cc5454020804081244s492df454mf76a51a04cd17074@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207686492.25136.8.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>
Message-ID: <1207748992.7049.2.camel@fawkes.p0llux.be>

On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 22:28 +0200, Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy wrote:

> I won't have time to do it before tomorrow evening (CEST), if anyone
> wants to it before that, feel free but just answer this mail to let
> everyone knows it's done.
> 
Finally I found time and put together a first trunk-doc module. I'm not
sure all the things I included are translatable and I might also have
missed other translatable documentations. Just send your feedback.

-- 
Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy <pollux at xfce.org>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080409/8f5b9681/attachment.bin

From stephan at xfce.org  Thu Apr 10 14:55:47 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:55:47 +0200
Subject: Configuration Dialogs
In-Reply-To: <47FC04B1.5060502@terra.com.br>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>
	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>
	<74b8614e0804060307t199d7510hd0d1bd6c4a06943c@mail.gmail.com>
	<47FC04B1.5060502@terra.com.br>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804100555i7570758cu395e3120a8e5e050@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:50 AM, Piter PUNK <piterpk at terra.com.br> wrote:
> Stephan Arts wrote:
>  > I have some ideas about how the configuration-dialogs can be improved.
>  > But trying to write those for 4.6 would probably push back the release
>  > further. Therefore I agree with Brian that this is best to be
>  > considered for 4.8. As an alternative I will import my code to the
>  > goodies repositories (xfce4-settings-manager or something), you can
>  > then follow its development, and comment at it. And we can discuss if
>  > it is something for 4.8 or not.
>
>  Hmmmm... think about flexible geometry or scroll bars! -:)
>
>  Some configuration window are very hard to use in small screens,
>  like Asus eeePC and Intel ClassmatePC. And probably those small
>  machines will became more popular.
>
>  I use ClassmatePC and have problems to reach the "OK" and "Cancel"
>  buttons. Well... and some others that i don't remember now. Probably
>  scroll bars can solve it -:)

Good idea, I'll see what I can do.

Regards,
Stephan

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Thu Apr 10 23:40:21 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:40:21 -0700
Subject: Configuration Dialogs
In-Reply-To: <47FC04B1.5060502@terra.com.br>
References: <47F6B246.1040904@cornell.edu>	<60f2b0dc0804060133h70b457f6n4431979cc469e79c@mail.gmail.com>	<74b8614e0804060307t199d7510hd0d1bd6c4a06943c@mail.gmail.com>
	<47FC04B1.5060502@terra.com.br>
Message-ID: <47FE8945.4040604@cornell.edu>

Piter PUNK wrote:
> Stephan Arts wrote:
>> I have some ideas about how the configuration-dialogs can be improved.
>> But trying to write those for 4.6 would probably push back the release
>> further. Therefore I agree with Brian that this is best to be
>> considered for 4.8. As an alternative I will import my code to the
>> goodies repositories (xfce4-settings-manager or something), you can
>> then follow its development, and comment at it. And we can discuss if
>> it is something for 4.8 or not.
> 
> Hmmmm... think about flexible geometry or scroll bars! -:)
> 
> Some configuration window are very hard to use in small screens,
> like Asus eeePC and Intel ClassmatePC. And probably those small
> machines will became more popular.
> 
> I use ClassmatePC and have problems to reach the "OK" and "Cancel"
> buttons. Well... and some others that i don't remember now. Probably
> scroll bars can solve it -:)

Some of those dialogs are just poorly designed in that they have too 
much padding around widgets or don't behave properly when the windows 
resize.  I've tried to fix them on and off, but I haven't really had time.

I don't think flexible geometry (assuming you are talking about having 
the widgets re-layout in a different order/configuration depending on 
avail space) is possible with how gtk works.

The scroll bar idea is kinda neat, though I'd like that to work without 
anyone on a large enough screen *ever* seeing the scrollbars.  I don't 
think that's possible -- putting the entire window contents in a 
GtkScrolledWindow with viewport would allow the user to resize the 
window way smaller than is needed to fit on the screen -- at least not 
without some icky hacks related to calculating screen size on the fly.

Alternatively, one might design a more compact version of the dialogs, 
designed specifically for small screens.  This is something that 
glade/gtkbuilder would be *great* for, since you can just use the same 
widget names in each design, and the only code difference would be to 
load one glade file or the other depending on screen size.  I kinda like 
this idea -- it makes me think of doing icon design.  Even if you have 
an SVG icon, many good icon artists will draw out fixed-size icons for 
smaller sizes because some icon metaphors just don't look good when 
scaled down.  Similar case here?

	-brian

From moe at xfce.org  Sat Apr 12 22:36:46 2008
From: moe at xfce.org (Moritz Heiber)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:36:46 +0200
Subject: Xfce 4.6.0 release milestones
Message-ID: <20080412223646.0c3c81db@xfce.org>

After following the developer discusion on the mailinglist I whipped up
a wiki page summing up the general release process and providing dates
and terms for the upcoming Xfce releases leading to the final
installment of Xfce 4.6.0.

--> http://wiki.xfce.org/milestones_to_46

These dates may change .. yet, so far they've been well recieved by the
general developer community. The number of releases and the
corresponding terms are pretty much fixed.

What to do now?

As a developer .. make sure your roadmap entry [1] is up-to-date and
watch out for further adjustments to the milestones page. Think about
what you can do during the release process and tell Stephan Arts
(stephan at xfce.org) about it. Check our bugtracker and and mark all your
bugs with the right 'milestone' tag (once the right milestone tags have
been created .. Brian?!) so we all get a good and clear overview about
what needs to be done in order to achieve a consistent release. And of
course .. hack away!

As a translator .. make sure you're catching the right date to start
translating the seperate components after the string freeze.

For everyone else .. think about contributing! There are many different
parts of Xfce in need of attention and love (for details check the
roadmap [1]). If you want to help out contact the maintainer of the
corresponding component or write a mail to the Xfce4 development list
[2].

Now .. GET TO WORK! ;-)

Regards,

Moritz

[1] http://wiki.xfce.org/roadmap_to_46
[2] http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev

-- 
GPG public key B189E8C8
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080412/df1452de/signature.bin

From stephan at xfce.org  Mon Apr 14 19:35:06 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:35:06 +0200
Subject: Rodent Icon-theme revised
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804141035w66a5b12fj883e87d2886edbed@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

A while ago, I noticed the rodent-icon-theme (xfce-icon-theme package)
is not icon-naming-spec compliant.

What do you guys think if I move the filenames around a bit make it
so? Perhaps add a few icons if they are missing.

Then, with xfce 4.6, people can actually use that icon-theme again ^_^.

Regards,

Stephan

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Mon Apr 14 22:50:27 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:50:27 -0700
Subject: Rodent Icon-theme revised
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804141035w66a5b12fj883e87d2886edbed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0804141035w66a5b12fj883e87d2886edbed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4803C393.5020304@cornell.edu>

Stephan Arts wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> A while ago, I noticed the rodent-icon-theme (xfce-icon-theme package)
> is not icon-naming-spec compliant.
> 
> What do you guys think if I move the filenames around a bit make it
> so? Perhaps add a few icons if they are missing.
> 
> Then, with xfce 4.6, people can actually use that icon-theme again ^_^.

Yes, if you have the time, please do.  This has been brought up a few 
times in the past but IIRC no one had the time to actually do it.

	-brian

From mmassonnet at gmail.com  Tue Apr 15 12:27:59 2008
From: mmassonnet at gmail.com (Mike Massonnet)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:27:59 +0200
Subject: [Xfce4-commits] r26844 - xfconf/trunk
In-Reply-To: <20080415085539.D32A6F29D8@mocha.foo-projects.org>
References: <20080415085539.D32A6F29D8@mocha.foo-projects.org>
Message-ID: <20080415102759.GI6988@failure.del>

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:55:39AM +0000, Brian Tarricone wrote:
> Author: kelnos
> Date: 2008-04-15 08:55:39 +0000 (Tue, 15 Apr 2008)
> New Revision: 26844
> 
> Modified:
>    xfconf/trunk/autogen.sh
> Log:
> get svn revision from git-svn in a smarter way
> 
> 
> Modified: xfconf/trunk/autogen.sh
> ===================================================================
> --- xfconf/trunk/autogen.sh	2008-04-15 08:24:38 UTC (rev 26843)
> +++ xfconf/trunk/autogen.sh	2008-04-15 08:55:39 UTC (rev 26844)
> @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
>  # substitute revision and linguas
>  linguas=$(sed -e '/^#/d' po/LINGUAS)
>  if [ -d .git/svn ]; then
> -    revision=$(git-svn log | head -n 2 | tail -n 1 | cut -d' ' -f1 | cut -dr -f2)
> +    revision=$(git-svn find-rev trunk)

I once fixed that in this way, than I came up with remotes/trunk instead
of simply trunk, because if you git-commit then run the ./autogen.sh
script, it won't take the svn revision.  But that's just a missing dummy
number unless all gets pushed to svn.

mike

From stephan at xfce.org  Thu Apr 17 23:30:58 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:30:58 +0200
Subject: [proposal] New rodent Icons
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804171430l2a4f4109le6a525296a6fdf96@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

When I was moving some stuff around inside svn for the rodent icon
theme (xfce4-icon-theme package) to make it more icon-naming-spec
compliant, I noticed the antique reference to OO.o inside the
'office'-related icons. This makes them (imho) not suitable for usage
as a 'generic' office-related icon.

I modified them slightly, using aspects from several different icons,
and I would like to know what you think;

Are these icons fit for the following mimetypes?

Regards,
Stephan
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: office-x-document.svg
Type: image/svg+xml
Size: 57958 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080417/6fb9f2c0/office-x-document-0001.svg
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: office-x-presentation.svg
Type: image/svg+xml
Size: 64824 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080417/6fb9f2c0/office-x-presentation-0001.svg
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: office-x-spreadsheet.svg
Type: image/svg+xml
Size: 83115 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080417/6fb9f2c0/office-x-spreadsheet-0001.svg

From damailings at mcbf.net  Fri Apr 18 01:26:27 2008
From: damailings at mcbf.net (David Mohr)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:26:27 -0600
Subject: [proposal] New rodent Icons
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804171430l2a4f4109le6a525296a6fdf96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0804171430l2a4f4109le6a525296a6fdf96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472d4b250804171626gca815cdx141666f91a812a3a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  When I was moving some stuff around inside svn for the rodent icon
>  theme (xfce4-icon-theme package) to make it more icon-naming-spec
>  compliant, I noticed the antique reference to OO.o inside the
>  'office'-related icons. This makes them (imho) not suitable for usage
>  as a 'generic' office-related icon.
>
>  I modified them slightly, using aspects from several different icons,
>  and I would like to know what you think;
>
>  Are these icons fit for the following mimetypes?

Personally I like the document and the spreadsheet one, but the
presentation icon is not very intuitive. It makes sense when I know
what it is, but if I was to spot this somewhere in thunar or on the
desktop with an obscure filename, I'm not sure I'd make the
connection.

So for what viewing size are these optimized? I'm really not sure if
this would work or not, but maybe some schematic of a projection would
make a more easily recognizable icon for a presentation?

~David

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Fri Apr 18 04:22:13 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:22:13 -0700
Subject: [proposal] New rodent Icons
In-Reply-To: <472d4b250804171626gca815cdx141666f91a812a3a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0804171430l2a4f4109le6a525296a6fdf96@mail.gmail.com>
	<472d4b250804171626gca815cdx141666f91a812a3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080417192213.41789c11@kepler>



On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:26:27 -0600 David Mohr wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >  When I was moving some stuff around inside svn for the rodent icon
> >  theme (xfce4-icon-theme package) to make it more icon-naming-spec
> >  compliant, I noticed the antique reference to OO.o inside the
> >  'office'-related icons. This makes them (imho) not suitable for
> > usage as a 'generic' office-related icon.
> >
> >  I modified them slightly, using aspects from several different
> > icons, and I would like to know what you think;
> >
> >  Are these icons fit for the following mimetypes?
> 
> Personally I like the document and the spreadsheet one, but the
> presentation icon is not very intuitive. It makes sense when I know
> what it is, but if I was to spot this somewhere in thunar or on the
> desktop with an obscure filename, I'm not sure I'd make the
> connection.

Yeah, I agree... maybe clone a (better-looking) version of the icon
that MS Excel uses for the 'full screen slideshow' button/menu item?
Not sure if OO.o uses the same icon; I thought so tho.  It kinda looks
like a projection screen on a stand, or... something.

	-brian


From nightmorph at gentoo.org  Fri Apr 18 04:53:40 2008
From: nightmorph at gentoo.org (Josh Saddler)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:53:40 -0700
Subject: [proposal] New rodent Icons
In-Reply-To: <20080417192213.41789c11@kepler>
References: <74b8614e0804171430l2a4f4109le6a525296a6fdf96@mail.gmail.com>	<472d4b250804171626gca815cdx141666f91a812a3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080417192213.41789c11@kepler>
Message-ID: <48080D34.5060805@gentoo.org>

Brian J. Tarricone wrote:
>>>  Are these icons fit for the following mimetypes?
>> Personally I like the document and the spreadsheet one, but the
>> presentation icon is not very intuitive. It makes sense when I know
>> what it is, but if I was to spot this somewhere in thunar or on the
>> desktop with an obscure filename, I'm not sure I'd make the
>> connection.
> 
> Yeah, I agree... maybe clone a (better-looking) version of the icon
> that MS Excel uses for the 'full screen slideshow' button/menu item?
> Not sure if OO.o uses the same icon; I thought so tho.  It kinda looks
> like a projection screen on a stand, or... something.

Same here; I was thinking it might look better if the two panes by the 
book were replaced with something resembling a big ol' chart on a stand, 
like the ol' days of paper presentations. :)

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080417/eca8b95e/signature.bin

From stephan at xfce.org  Fri Apr 18 09:21:35 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:21:35 +0200
Subject: [proposal] New rodent Icons
In-Reply-To: <48080D34.5060805@gentoo.org>
References: <74b8614e0804171430l2a4f4109le6a525296a6fdf96@mail.gmail.com>
	<472d4b250804171626gca815cdx141666f91a812a3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080417192213.41789c11@kepler> <48080D34.5060805@gentoo.org>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804180021laaa3f9cva71dfc630b518926@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:53 AM, Josh Saddler <nightmorph at gentoo.org> wrote:
> Brian J. Tarricone wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > > >  Are these icons fit for the following mimetypes?
> > > >
> > > Personally I like the document and the spreadsheet one, but the
> > > presentation icon is not very intuitive. It makes sense when I know
> > > what it is, but if I was to spot this somewhere in thunar or on the
> > > desktop with an obscure filename, I'm not sure I'd make the
> > > connection.
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, I agree... maybe clone a (better-looking) version of the icon
> > that MS Excel uses for the 'full screen slideshow' button/menu item?
> > Not sure if OO.o uses the same icon; I thought so tho.  It kinda looks
> > like a projection screen on a stand, or... something.
> >
>
>  Same here; I was thinking it might look better if the two panes by the book
> were replaced with something resembling a big ol' chart on a stand, like the
> ol' days of paper presentations. :)


Something like this?

-
Stephan
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: office-x-presentation.svg
Type: image/svg+xml
Size: 63713 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080418/a14f96c5/office-x-presentation-0001.svg

From nightmorph at gentoo.org  Fri Apr 18 10:47:02 2008
From: nightmorph at gentoo.org (Josh Saddler)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:47:02 -0700
Subject: [proposal] New rodent Icons
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804180021laaa3f9cva71dfc630b518926@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0804171430l2a4f4109le6a525296a6fdf96@mail.gmail.com>	<472d4b250804171626gca815cdx141666f91a812a3a@mail.gmail.com>	<20080417192213.41789c11@kepler>
	<48080D34.5060805@gentoo.org>
	<74b8614e0804180021laaa3f9cva71dfc630b518926@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48086006.4060502@gentoo.org>

Stephan Arts wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:53 AM, Josh Saddler <nightmorph at gentoo.org> wrote:
>>  Same here; I was thinking it might look better if the two panes by the book
>> were replaced with something resembling a big ol' chart on a stand, like the
>> ol' days of paper presentations. :)
> 
> 
> Something like this?

Oh yeah, you've Brought The Sexy Back!(tm) :)

I like it. Nice work. That's nice and readable; more so than a 3/4 
perspective tripod stand thingy like I'd originally thought of. I like 
yours more.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080418/e5c3dedd/signature.bin

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Mon Apr 21 07:54:51 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 22:54:51 -0700
Subject: git.xfce.org is open for business (mostly)
Message-ID: <20080420225451.7e592053@kepler>

{Could someone fwd this to goodies-dev?  I'm too lazy to subscribe.}

Hey all,

For starters: no, Xfce is not migrating to git.  We're sticking with
svn, at least for now.

On the other hand, I've been messing around with git for a while, and I
really like it, so I decided to set up git hosting (using gitosis, if
you're curious) on our project server (mocha.xfce.org), and write a
simple web frontend for people to manage their own git repositories.

First, a bit of a policy note:  This is not intended as a
general-purpose git hosting solution.  Let's keep all projects hosted
here Xfce-related, or at the very least, desktop-neutral (and
gtk-based, for neutral GUI apps).  If you just want free git hosting
for any old project, go to github or gitorious or wherever.

If you have a https account on svn.xfce.org (basically anyone with svn
commit access), then you automatically have an account on git.xfce.org.
Right now the admin panel is here:

https://svn.xfce.org/git-admin/

It should hopefully be pretty self-explanatory.  Basically, the only
access we offer will be ssh-based, and all auth is done using ssh
public keys (no passwords).

So first, you'll use the admin panel to add your ssh public keys to
your account.  You can add as many keys as you want.  If you later want
to delete one, you can do that too.

Next create a new git repository (the repos link).  Hopefully that
should be pretty self-explanatory.  For security/sanity reasons, repo
names are a bit restricted -- only alphanumeric (US English alphabet),
and dash, underscore, plus, and dot are allowed.  Don't put a '.git'
extension on the end of the repo name.  Your username will get
prepended to the name automatically.

DO NOT MAKE A MISTAKE WHEN CREATING YOUR REPO.  I haven't implemented
repo deletion or editing the repo metadata yet.  So be careful for the
time being, because you can't yet correct typos.

After you've created a repo on the server, you can create a repo
normally on your end and make commits.  When you want to push to the
repo on the server for the first time, you can do:

git-remote add origin git at git.xfce.org:$username/$reponame
git-push origin master:refs/heads/master

(Obviously, replace $username with your https username, and $reponame
with the name of the repo you created.)

To make your local 'master' branch automatically track the remote when
you do git-pull, do this (not sure if this is needed, but it works for
me):

git-config branch.master.remote origin
git-config branch.master.merge refs/heads/master

I have cgit running at http://git.xfce.org/.  If you checked the
appropriate box when creating the repo, you can view it on the web
there.  If you checked the 'anonymous access' box, read-only users can
fetch your tree by doing:

git-clone git://git.xfce.org/$username/$repo

TODO list for the admin interface:

* allow editing repo metadata
* allow deleting repos
* allow granting other users write (push) access to one of your repos
* allow uploading a ssh pubkey file (instead of pasting the contents
  into a text box)
* map user names to real names for the 'owner' display on cgit

Anyhow, that should be about it.  Give it a try, and let me know if you
have any problems.

	-brian

From Peeter.Vois at proekspert.ee  Mon Apr 21 08:04:04 2008
From: Peeter.Vois at proekspert.ee (Peeter Vois)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:04:04 +0300
Subject: git.xfce.org is open for business (mostly)
In-Reply-To: <20080420225451.7e592053@kepler>
References: <20080420225451.7e592053@kepler>
Message-ID: <20080421090404.71458d74.Peeter.Vois@proekspert.ee>

Hi Brian!

I have been working with a simple git web frontend written in php. Take a look a nice real life demo ;)

http://people.proekspert.ee/peeter/git/index.php?p=git-git.git

History of the web frontend is here:

http://people.proekspert.ee/peeter/git/index.php?p=git-php.git

Maybe you will find something to take over.

Best Regards,
/Peeter


On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 22:54:51 -0700
"Brian J. Tarricone" <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:

> {Could someone fwd this to goodies-dev?  I'm too lazy to subscribe.}
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> For starters: no, Xfce is not migrating to git.  We're sticking with
> svn, at least for now.
> 
> On the other hand, I've been messing around with git for a while, and I
> really like it, so I decided to set up git hosting (using gitosis, if
> you're curious) on our project server (mocha.xfce.org), and write a
> simple web frontend for people to manage their own git repositories.
> 
> First, a bit of a policy note:  This is not intended as a
> general-purpose git hosting solution.  Let's keep all projects hosted
> here Xfce-related, or at the very least, desktop-neutral (and
> gtk-based, for neutral GUI apps).  If you just want free git hosting
> for any old project, go to github or gitorious or wherever.
> 
> If you have a https account on svn.xfce.org (basically anyone with svn
> commit access), then you automatically have an account on git.xfce.org.
> Right now the admin panel is here:
> 
> https://svn.xfce.org/git-admin/
> 
> It should hopefully be pretty self-explanatory.  Basically, the only
> access we offer will be ssh-based, and all auth is done using ssh
> public keys (no passwords).
> 
> So first, you'll use the admin panel to add your ssh public keys to
> your account.  You can add as many keys as you want.  If you later want
> to delete one, you can do that too.
> 
> Next create a new git repository (the repos link).  Hopefully that
> should be pretty self-explanatory.  For security/sanity reasons, repo
> names are a bit restricted -- only alphanumeric (US English alphabet),
> and dash, underscore, plus, and dot are allowed.  Don't put a '.git'
> extension on the end of the repo name.  Your username will get
> prepended to the name automatically.
> 
> DO NOT MAKE A MISTAKE WHEN CREATING YOUR REPO.  I haven't implemented
> repo deletion or editing the repo metadata yet.  So be careful for the
> time being, because you can't yet correct typos.
> 
> After you've created a repo on the server, you can create a repo
> normally on your end and make commits.  When you want to push to the
> repo on the server for the first time, you can do:
> 
> git-remote add origin git at git.xfce.org:$username/$reponame
> git-push origin master:refs/heads/master
> 
> (Obviously, replace $username with your https username, and $reponame
> with the name of the repo you created.)
> 
> To make your local 'master' branch automatically track the remote when
> you do git-pull, do this (not sure if this is needed, but it works for
> me):
> 
> git-config branch.master.remote origin
> git-config branch.master.merge refs/heads/master
> 
> I have cgit running at http://git.xfce.org/.  If you checked the
> appropriate box when creating the repo, you can view it on the web
> there.  If you checked the 'anonymous access' box, read-only users can
> fetch your tree by doing:
> 
> git-clone git://git.xfce.org/$username/$repo
> 
> TODO list for the admin interface:
> 
> * allow editing repo metadata
> * allow deleting repos
> * allow granting other users write (push) access to one of your repos
> * allow uploading a ssh pubkey file (instead of pasting the contents
>   into a text box)
> * map user names to real names for the 'owner' display on cgit
> 
> Anyhow, that should be about it.  Give it a try, and let me know if you
> have any problems.
> 
> 	-brian
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce4-dev mailing list
> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev

From mmassonnet at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 09:15:46 2008
From: mmassonnet at gmail.com (Mike Massonnet)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:15:46 +0200
Subject: Forwarded to goodies-dev Re: git.xfce.org is open for business
	(mostly)
In-Reply-To: <20080420225451.7e592053@kepler>
References: <20080420225451.7e592053@kepler>
Message-ID: <20080421071546.GC10716@failure.del>

On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 10:54:51PM -0700, Brian J. Tarricone wrote:
> {Could someone fwd this to goodies-dev?  I'm too lazy to subscribe.}

Done.

From dantrell at mirthil.org  Mon Apr 21 14:35:34 2008
From: dantrell at mirthil.org (Dantrell B.)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:35:34 -0400
Subject: My Xfce Experience
Message-ID: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>

Why Xfce:

I decided to switch window managers (or desktop environments) for a
very small reason. Gnome had extremely minor problems with Geany and
other programs.

The main reason I picked Xfce is because it came highly recommended.
The people I spoke to are mostly long-time users who believe that Xfce
has come a long way since it's early days.

What I like:

1. Xfce is light and fast.

2. Overall, configuration was intuitive Some things took me extra time
to find such as "User Interface Preferences". I'd think it'd be called
"Appearance" or likewise but it doesn't really matter.

3. The file manager can be made to do what I want it to--except for a
minor thing (explained below)

What I don't like:

1. As I stated before, I have bad eye sight. So it irks me that I
can't change the icon size of items in the Xfce menu.

2. The workspace pager displays icons that I can't see. I'd much
rather have names instead (I have been told that this is an indeed a
feature and it's been fixed in trunk). But furthermore, I'd like the
ability to color (text and background) my workspace names.

Edit: "This is a bug which needs to be fixed in libwnck (if at all)."

3. Back to the file manager. Now don't get me wrong, I think thunar is
great but I don't like how I currently have to select the apperance of
the location path via the [View -> Location Selector] menu.

I'd rather there be a small icon to the left of the arrow (which
appears when you are deep into the filesystem tree) or filesystem icon
(that appears when you are in / or nearby).

That icon, will let you instantly swap between pathbar and toolbar
styles (but not the current toolbar style).

I'd rather the toolbar style be adjusted so there are no icons at all,
just a textbox displaying the path. Nautilus is actually the best
example of this.

4. I don't like dependency on other icons in /usr/share/icons. If you
delete everything in there but the Rodent icon pack, things break
badly.

Speaking of icons... I'm sorry but the trash, home, filesystem, and
<folder> type icons are fugly. However, all the <file> type icons are
very pretty. I had to hack up 2 icon packs to replace the folders
because my soul was breaking. This killed some of my time.

Edit: Rodent 2 is being under-works. All should be well then. :)

5. Also speaking of icons, the systray icon for the calendar? I'm
sorry but it is not pretty and doesn't scale into the systray well.
I'd much rather have the ability to to show the date text style as
with the digital apperance of the clock.

Conclusion:

Preferred user experience is the ability to install a wm/de, configure
settings as needed, and get into their work without killing time. To
me, xfce suceeded in most of this.

The things I listed in my dislikes (there are more but I didn't want
to crush souls) are probably minor, but fixing them would be a
blessing. :)

Cookies for the hard work, you made a product that I'd, thus far,
rather use over the *boxes. I'd also absolutely use it over kde. As
for gnome, it's close. :P

Dantrell B.

From stephan at xfce.org  Mon Apr 21 17:00:04 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:00:04 +0200
Subject: [xfce4-icon-theme] system-shutdown, system-log-out and system-reboot
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804210800o571adb92ib7236d634cc7f75e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Just like I had mimetype-icons before. Here I have two more icons
reboot and log-out -- modeled after the shutdown icon.

Please let me know what you think.

-
Stephan
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: system-reboot.svg
Type: image/svg+xml
Size: 6559 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080421/c817ec72/system-reboot-0001.svg
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: system-log-out.svg
Type: image/svg+xml
Size: 7083 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080421/c817ec72/system-log-out-0001.svg

From landronimirc at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 18:51:05 2008
From: landronimirc at gmail.com (Liviu Andronic)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:51:05 +0200
Subject: [xfce4-icon-theme] system-shutdown,
	system-log-out and system-reboot
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804210800o571adb92ib7236d634cc7f75e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0804210800o571adb92ib7236d634cc7f75e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68b1e2610804210951h7626ebeen338cf855da25b3ee@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/21/08, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
>  Please let me know what you think.
>

I like both.
Liviu

From ongardie at gmail.com  Mon Apr 21 18:57:35 2008
From: ongardie at gmail.com (Diego Ongaro)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:57:35 -0500
Subject: [xfce4-icon-theme] system-shutdown,
	system-log-out and system-reboot
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804210800o571adb92ib7236d634cc7f75e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <74b8614e0804210800o571adb92ib7236d634cc7f75e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <115252780804210957v4730f5c5ybb925fb85162d790@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
>
>  Please let me know what you think.

I'm not offended :)

From christian at twotoasts.de  Tue Apr 22 07:24:38 2008
From: christian at twotoasts.de (Christian Dywan)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:24:38 +0200
Subject: My Xfce Experience
In-Reply-To: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080422072438.64dd0ecf@twotoasts.de>

Am Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:35:34 -0400
schrieb "Dantrell B." <dantrell at mirthil.org>:

> [...]
> What I don't like:
> 
> 1. As I stated before, I have bad eye sight. So it irks me that I
> can't change the icon size of items in the Xfce menu.

"gtk-icon-sizes" is the relevant setting. Please file a bug.

> [...]
> 4. I don't like dependency on other icons in /usr/share/icons. If you
> delete everything in there but the Rodent icon pack, things break
> badly.
> 
> Speaking of icons... I'm sorry but the trash, home, filesystem, and
> <folder> type icons are fugly. However, all the <file> type icons are
> very pretty. I had to hack up 2 icon packs to replace the folders
> because my soul was breaking. This killed some of my time.
> 
> Edit: Rodent 2 is being under-works. All should be well then. :)

Icon themes are, independently of Xfce, a Free Desktop Org standard. It
is reasonable for a theme to depend on others. In particular hicolor can
be expected to be present, it is not a user chosen theme. So if you
don't like any icons, choose a new theme, it's as simple as that. I
don't personally like Rodent either, but that doesn't justify this kind
of critique.

Regards,
    Christian

From dantrell at mirthil.org  Tue Apr 22 12:44:51 2008
From: dantrell at mirthil.org (Dantrell B.)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:44:51 -0400
Subject: My Xfce Experience
In-Reply-To: <20080422072438.64dd0ecf@twotoasts.de>
References: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080422072438.64dd0ecf@twotoasts.de>
Message-ID: <ef41a990804220344g219cc0bbqb493918dad89843a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Christian,

I was taught that critique is critique and that no matter how well
meant, it won't make everybody happy, therefore I have no need to
justify anything.

I was asked to give my thoughts and I gave it like I saw it (after one
of you looked over my letter).

If I somehow managed to accidentally offend you, get over it. People
are dying in the world, you have no right to talk about justifying
critique.

Take it or leave it.

Sincerely,

Dantrell B.

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:24 AM, Christian Dywan <christian at twotoasts.de> wrote:
> Am Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:35:34 -0400
>  schrieb "Dantrell B." <dantrell at mirthil.org>:
>
>  > [...]
>
> > What I don't like:
>  >
>  > 1. As I stated before, I have bad eye sight. So it irks me that I
>  > can't change the icon size of items in the Xfce menu.
>
>  "gtk-icon-sizes" is the relevant setting. Please file a bug.
>
>  > [...]
>
> > 4. I don't like dependency on other icons in /usr/share/icons. If you
>  > delete everything in there but the Rodent icon pack, things break
>  > badly.
>  >
>  > Speaking of icons... I'm sorry but the trash, home, filesystem, and
>  > <folder> type icons are fugly. However, all the <file> type icons are
>  > very pretty. I had to hack up 2 icon packs to replace the folders
>  > because my soul was breaking. This killed some of my time.
>  >
>  > Edit: Rodent 2 is being under-works. All should be well then. :)
>
>  Icon themes are, independently of Xfce, a Free Desktop Org standard. It
>  is reasonable for a theme to depend on others. In particular hicolor can
>  be expected to be present, it is not a user chosen theme. So if you
>  don't like any icons, choose a new theme, it's as simple as that. I
>  don't personally like Rodent either, but that doesn't justify this kind
>  of critique.
>
>  Regards,
>     Christian
>  _______________________________________________
>  Xfce4-dev mailing list
>  Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
>  http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
>

From christian at twotoasts.de  Tue Apr 22 18:28:33 2008
From: christian at twotoasts.de (Christian Dywan)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:28:33 +0200
Subject: My Xfce Experience
In-Reply-To: <ef41a990804220344g219cc0bbqb493918dad89843a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080422072438.64dd0ecf@twotoasts.de>
	<ef41a990804220344g219cc0bbqb493918dad89843a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080422182833.391e8734@twotoasts.de>

Am Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:44:51 -0400
schrieb "Dantrell B." <dantrell at mirthil.org>:

> Hello Christian,
> 
> I was taught that critique is critique and that no matter how well
> meant, it won't make everybody happy, therefore I have no need to
> justify anything.
> 
> I was asked to give my thoughts and I gave it like I saw it (after one
> of you looked over my letter).
> 
> If I somehow managed to accidentally offend you, get over it. People
> are dying in the world, you have no right to talk about justifying
> critique.
> 
> Take it or leave it.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Dantrell B.

Hi Dantrell,

I gave you an informative answer. The "justification" part was mainly
due to your very emotional way of expressing your thoughts indeed.
I found it somewhat uncalled for. But I will get over it in any
case. Next time I will just skip those parts while reading :)

Yours,
    Christian

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Tue Apr 22 19:32:33 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:32:33 -0700
Subject: My Xfce Experience
In-Reply-To: <ef41a990804220344g219cc0bbqb493918dad89843a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>	<20080422072438.64dd0ecf@twotoasts.de>
	<ef41a990804220344g219cc0bbqb493918dad89843a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <480E2131.4040702@cornell.edu>

Dantrell B. wrote:

> If I somehow managed to accidentally offend you, get over it. People
> are dying in the world, you have no right to talk about justifying
> critique.

We all have a right to talk about whatever we like.  Your original 
critique came off as a bit rude and insulting.  Saying "I'm sorry, but" 
before saying something rude doesn't make it any less rude.

A word of (unsolicited) advice: if you want to get people who don't know 
you to do something for you (for free!), logic suggests you approach 
them in a humble manner, be as polite as possible, and avoid insulting 
them.  If you choose to ignore this, you shouldn't be surprised when 
people either ignore you, or respond defensively or with hostility.

	-brian


From dantrell at mirthil.org  Tue Apr 22 20:00:53 2008
From: dantrell at mirthil.org (Dantrell B.)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:00:53 -0400
Subject: My Xfce Experience
In-Reply-To: <480E2131.4040702@cornell.edu>
References: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080422072438.64dd0ecf@twotoasts.de>
	<ef41a990804220344g219cc0bbqb493918dad89843a@mail.gmail.com>
	<480E2131.4040702@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <ef41a990804221100j2103a1ffn4d8ce6decb0fed31@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Don't misunderstand, I submitted my thoughts because I was asked to.
I'm not expecting anyone to change anything based on one voice.

The email is titled, "My Xfce Experience" and not, "What I want Xfce
to Be" for a reason.

As I said before, critique is critique. Take it or leave it.

Really now, no matter what you say or do, to someone out there in the
world you are rude. Where I'm from, what I did was give it like I saw
it. I wasn't being rude, I was being honest. Obviously, where you are
from, I was being honest and rude. Either-way, I don't care. I have no
interest in nitpicking on the ideal of humbleness or politeness. I
will always give it like I see it, just like everyone else will do as
they will. :)

I think it'll be in be in everyone's best interests to stop further
correspondence on this subject.

Dantrell B.

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> Dantrell B. wrote:
>
>  > If I somehow managed to accidentally offend you, get over it. People
>  > are dying in the world, you have no right to talk about justifying
>  > critique.
>
>  We all have a right to talk about whatever we like.  Your original
>  critique came off as a bit rude and insulting.  Saying "I'm sorry, but"
>  before saying something rude doesn't make it any less rude.
>
>  A word of (unsolicited) advice: if you want to get people who don't know
>  you to do something for you (for free!), logic suggests you approach
>  them in a humble manner, be as polite as possible, and avoid insulting
>  them.  If you choose to ignore this, you shouldn't be surprised when
>  people either ignore you, or respond defensively or with hostility.
>
>         -brian
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Xfce4-dev mailing list
>  Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
>  http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
>

From timtas at cubic.ch  Wed Apr 23 11:06:10 2008
From: timtas at cubic.ch (Tim Tassonis)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:06:10 +0200
Subject: Risitretto Bugs
Message-ID: <480EFC02.5060408@cubic.ch>

Hi all

Not sure if this is the right list, but I would like to report some bug 
reports regarding ristretto, which I like very much, but seems to have 
serious issues when called with filename or directory arguments.

Bye
Tim



From pollux at xfce.org  Wed Apr 23 11:58:07 2008
From: pollux at xfce.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Wauthy)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:58:07 +0200
Subject: Risitretto Bugs
In-Reply-To: <480EFC02.5060408@cubic.ch>
References: <480EFC02.5060408@cubic.ch>
Message-ID: <1208944687.27153.23.camel@indiana.infonet.fundp.ac.be>

On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 11:06 +0200, Tim Tassonis wrote:
> Hi all
> 
Hi

> Not sure if this is the right list, but I would like to report some bug 
> reports regarding ristretto, which I like very much, but seems to have 
> serious issues when called with filename or directory arguments.
> 
The best way to report bugs is to use the Xfce bug tracker available at
http://bugzilla.xfce.org

Ristretto can be found as a component of the Xfce Goodies product.

-- 
Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy <pollux at xfce.org>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080423/088d5147/attachment-0001.bin

From timtas at cubic.ch  Wed Apr 23 17:19:51 2008
From: timtas at cubic.ch (Tim Tassonis)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:19:51 +0200
Subject: Risitretto Bugs
In-Reply-To: <1208944687.27153.23.camel@indiana.infonet.fundp.ac.be>
References: <480EFC02.5060408@cubic.ch>
	<1208944687.27153.23.camel@indiana.infonet.fundp.ac.be>
Message-ID: <480F5397.9030701@cubic.ch>

Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 11:06 +0200, Tim Tassonis wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
> Hi
> 
>> Not sure if this is the right list, but I would like to report some bug 
>> reports regarding ristretto, which I like very much, but seems to have 
>> serious issues when called with filename or directory arguments.
>>
> The best way to report bugs is to use the Xfce bug tracker available at
> http://bugzilla.xfce.org
> 
> Ristretto can be found as a component of the Xfce Goodies product.
> 
Thanks, I reported the bug under the Number 4035.


Below patch fixes it (also attached), would be great if it could be 
applied soon, as I really like ristretto, but without this patch it is 
unusable as my default document viewer

Index: src/main.c
===================================================================
--- src/main.c	(revision 4662)
+++ src/main.c	(working copy)
@@ -475,7 +475,7 @@
                  }
                  else
                  {
-                    rstto_navigator_open_file (navigator, path_dir, 
TRUE, NULL);
+                    rstto_navigator_open_file (navigator, path_dir, 
FALSE, NULL);
                      gtk_statusbar_remove(bar, context_id, message_id);
                  }
              }



Bye
Tim
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: patch-bug-4035.diff
Type: text/x-patch
Size: 498 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080423/12e5348f/patch-bug-4035.bin

From pollux at xfce.org  Wed Apr 23 18:14:00 2008
From: pollux at xfce.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Wauthy)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:14:00 +0200
Subject: Risitretto Bugs
In-Reply-To: <480F5397.9030701@cubic.ch>
References: <480EFC02.5060408@cubic.ch>
	<1208944687.27153.23.camel@indiana.infonet.fundp.ac.be>
	<480F5397.9030701@cubic.ch>
Message-ID: <1208967240.4073.3.camel@slytherin.p0llux.be>

Le mercredi 23 avril 2008 ? 17:19 +0200, Tim Tassonis a ?crit :
> Thanks, I reported the bug under the Number 4035.
> 
No need to send this mail directly to me, I'm subscribed to the list, so
I'll get it.

> Below patch fixes it (also attached), would be great if it could be 
> applied soon, as I really like ristretto, but without this patch it is 
> unusable as my default document viewer
> 

Patch in attachement is better and no need to post it here if you
already added it to bugzilla. Also, in bugzilla you can attach a patch
as a file instead of pasting it in a comment.

-- 
Jean-Fran?ois Wauthy <pollux at xfce.org>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: Ceci est une partie de message
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?num=E9riquement?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_sign=E9e?=
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080423/2a98d668/attachment.bin

From sofar at foo-projects.org  Wed Apr 23 19:52:40 2008
From: sofar at foo-projects.org (Kok, Auke)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:52:40 -0700
Subject: My Xfce Experience
In-Reply-To: <ef41a990804221100j2103a1ffn4d8ce6decb0fed31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ef41a990804210535j3dad687wf511f7920042e3b5@mail.gmail.com>	<20080422072438.64dd0ecf@twotoasts.de>	<ef41a990804220344g219cc0bbqb493918dad89843a@mail.gmail.com>	<480E2131.4040702@cornell.edu>
	<ef41a990804221100j2103a1ffn4d8ce6decb0fed31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <480F7768.5090100@foo-projects.org>

Dantrell B. wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Don't misunderstand, I submitted my thoughts because I was asked to.
> I'm not expecting anyone to change anything based on one voice.
> 
> The email is titled, "My Xfce Experience" and not, "What I want Xfce
> to Be" for a reason.
> 
> As I said before, critique is critique. Take it or leave it.

This is not a blog list - it's a development list.

If you post to this list people will assume that your critique is something that
you want to be addressed by the developers that frequent this list.

If you want to write a review/experience/blog about Xfce then I suggest that you
do not do that on this list. It is not the right place for people to "dump and
run" complaints. You are actually expected to cooperate with the developers and
act in case they ask for more information and feedback.

We need everyone on this list to behave this way since otherwise the mailinglist
cannot function in the way that it is meant (which is productively). And this is
the reason exactly why people commented about the way that you posted your message.

I hope this clears things up a bit and we can avoid these hit-and-runs in the future.

Cheers,

Auke



From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Sat Apr 26 20:22:23 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:22:23 -0700
Subject: xfdesktop+libwnck
Message-ID: <20080426112223.126b016f@kepler>

I just committed a big patch from Nick to remove all uses of libnetk
(inside libxfcegui4) and replace it with libwnck.  This is long
overdue; forgot about it cuz the bug wasn't assigned to me.  Please
test it out and tell me if anything has broken.

	-brian

From stephan at xfce.org  Sun Apr 27 11:24:35 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:24:35 +0200
Subject: xfdesktop+libwnck
In-Reply-To: <20080426112223.126b016f@kepler>
References: <20080426112223.126b016f@kepler>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804270224qc746c99ua1e0afdb6bdb45b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> I just committed a big patch from Nick to remove all uses of libnetk
>  (inside libxfcegui4) and replace it with libwnck.  This is long
>  overdue; forgot about it cuz the bug wasn't assigned to me.  Please
>  test it out and tell me if anything has broken.

Could you put #ifndef XFCE_DISABLE_DEPRECATED directives around the
netk stuff inside libxfcegui4?

This would ease the testing if the transition of different modules was complete.

>
>         -brian

Stephan

From stephan at xfce.org  Mon Apr 28 10:24:56 2008
From: stephan at xfce.org (Stephan Arts)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:24:56 +0200
Subject: xfdesktop+libwnck
In-Reply-To: <74b8614e0804270224qc746c99ua1e0afdb6bdb45b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080426112223.126b016f@kepler>
	<74b8614e0804270224qc746c99ua1e0afdb6bdb45b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74b8614e0804280124t64175254p934749c0e33af95f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Stephan Arts <stephan at xfce.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>  > I just committed a big patch from Nick to remove all uses of libnetk
>  >  (inside libxfcegui4) and replace it with libwnck.  This is long
>  >  overdue; forgot about it cuz the bug wasn't assigned to me.  Please
>  >  test it out and tell me if anything has broken.
>
>  Could you put #ifndef XFCE_DISABLE_DEPRECATED directives around the
>  netk stuff inside libxfcegui4?
>
>  This would ease the testing if the transition of different modules was complete.
>

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but here is a patch.
Please tell me what you think.

-
Stephan
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: libxfcegui4_netk_deprecation.diff
Type: text/x-diff
Size: 5651 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://foo-projects.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/attachments/20080428/5740747d/libxfcegui4_netk_deprecation-0001.bin

From jouke.hylkema at onera.fr  Tue Apr 29 15:17:11 2008
From: jouke.hylkema at onera.fr (jouke hijlkema)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:17:11 +0200
Subject: twinview problem
Message-ID: <48171FD7.9000205@onera.fr>

Hello all,

This is probably not an XFCE issue but it's driving me insane and I was
hoping you could shed some light.
I have an NVIDIA Quadro FX 540 with 2 monitors attached, one on the dvi
and one on the analogue  port.
If I launch xfce using the xfcestart4 script, all goes well (this is
what I've been using for the last couple of months). However, I upgraded
to xubuntu 8.04 and for lots of reasons, mainly access rights on my USB
key, I have to use gdm. The strange thing is that now TwinView no longer
works (new windows open in between screens).
If I launch the nvidia-settings tool, it gives a warning telling me that
I'm not running an NVIDIA driver unless I specifically give the display ID.


I hope this makes some sense, if so please help

Jouke


From corsac at debian.org  Tue Apr 29 15:19:35 2008
From: corsac at debian.org (Yves-Alexis Perez)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:19:35 +0200
Subject: twinview problem
In-Reply-To: <48171FD7.9000205@onera.fr>
References: <48171FD7.9000205@onera.fr>
Message-ID: <20080429131935.GD28054@molly.corsac.net>

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 01:17:11PM +0000, jouke hijlkema wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> This is probably not an XFCE issue but it's driving me insane and I was
> hoping you could shed some light.
> I have an NVIDIA Quadro FX 540 with 2 monitors attached, one on the dvi
> and one on the analogue  port.
> If I launch xfce using the xfcestart4 script, all goes well (this is
> what I've been using for the last couple of months). However, I upgraded
> to xubuntu 8.04 and for lots of reasons, mainly access rights on my USB
> key, I have to use gdm. The strange thing is that now TwinView no longer
> works (new windows open in between screens).
> If I launch the nvidia-settings tool, it gives a warning telling me that
> I'm not running an NVIDIA driver unless I specifically give the display ID.

I'd say it has nothing to do with gdm (and I dont understand your issue with
gdm and the usb keys anyway). This looks like a randr 1.2 issue, or something
like that.
-- 
Yves-Alexis

From jouke.hylkema at onera.fr  Tue Apr 29 16:04:49 2008
From: jouke.hylkema at onera.fr (jouke hijlkema)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:04:49 +0200
Subject: twinview problem
In-Reply-To: <20080429131935.GD28054@molly.corsac.net>
References: <48171FD7.9000205@onera.fr>
	<20080429131935.GD28054@molly.corsac.net>
Message-ID: <48172B01.8060207@onera.fr>

Thanks for your quick response. I'll have a look at randr. The USB thing 
is that if I don't use gdm, something seems missing in the HAL policies. 
I can not mount my USB key. If I run startxfce4 as root the problem is 
gone ... but I don't want that

Jouke

Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 01:17:11PM +0000, jouke hijlkema wrote:
>   
>> Hello all,
>>
>> This is probably not an XFCE issue but it's driving me insane and I was
>> hoping you could shed some light.
>> I have an NVIDIA Quadro FX 540 with 2 monitors attached, one on the dvi
>> and one on the analogue  port.
>> If I launch xfce using the xfcestart4 script, all goes well (this is
>> what I've been using for the last couple of months). However, I upgraded
>> to xubuntu 8.04 and for lots of reasons, mainly access rights on my USB
>> key, I have to use gdm. The strange thing is that now TwinView no longer
>> works (new windows open in between screens).
>> If I launch the nvidia-settings tool, it gives a warning telling me that
>> I'm not running an NVIDIA driver unless I specifically give the display ID.
>>     
>
> I'd say it has nothing to do with gdm (and I dont understand your issue with
> gdm and the usb keys anyway). This looks like a randr 1.2 issue, or something
> like that.
>   

From corsac at debian.org  Tue Apr 29 16:39:07 2008
From: corsac at debian.org (Yves-Alexis Perez)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:39:07 +0200
Subject: twinview problem
In-Reply-To: <48172B01.8060207@onera.fr>
References: <48171FD7.9000205@onera.fr>
	<20080429131935.GD28054@molly.corsac.net>
	<48172B01.8060207@onera.fr>
Message-ID: <20080429143907.GA9282@molly.corsac.net>

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 02:04:49PM +0000, jouke hijlkema wrote:
> Thanks for your quick response. I'll have a look at randr. The USB thing 
> is that if I don't use gdm, something seems missing in the HAL policies. 
> I can not mount my USB key. If I run startxfce4 as root the problem is 
> gone ... but I don't want that

Maybe some policykit or stuff like that, I don't know. Make sure you're in the
groups needed, but maybe even that is deprecated. Maybe try to talk to xubuntu
folks?

Cheers,
-- 
Yves-Alexis

From jouke.hylkema at onera.fr  Tue Apr 29 16:54:21 2008
From: jouke.hylkema at onera.fr (jouke hijlkema)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:54:21 +0200
Subject: twinview problem
In-Reply-To: <20080429143907.GA9282@molly.corsac.net>
References: <48171FD7.9000205@onera.fr>	<20080429131935.GD28054@molly.corsac.net>	<48172B01.8060207@onera.fr>
	<20080429143907.GA9282@molly.corsac.net>
Message-ID: <4817369D.6040007@onera.fr>

I'll do that ... but that doesn't explain why twinview is no longer 
working when starting xfce through gdm. I checked but the problem i sthe 
same with kdm or xdm ....

Jouke

Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 02:04:49PM +0000, jouke hijlkema wrote:
>   
>> Thanks for your quick response. I'll have a look at randr. The USB thing 
>> is that if I don't use gdm, something seems missing in the HAL policies. 
>> I can not mount my USB key. If I run startxfce4 as root the problem is 
>> gone ... but I don't want that
>>     
>
> Maybe some policykit or stuff like that, I don't know. Make sure you're in the
> groups needed, but maybe even that is deprecated. Maybe try to talk to xubuntu
> folks?
>
> Cheers,
>   

From corsac at debian.org  Tue Apr 29 17:04:24 2008
From: corsac at debian.org (Yves-Alexis Perez)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:04:24 +0200
Subject: twinview problem
In-Reply-To: <4817369D.6040007@onera.fr>
References: <48171FD7.9000205@onera.fr>
	<20080429131935.GD28054@molly.corsac.net>
	<48172B01.8060207@onera.fr>
	<20080429143907.GA9282@molly.corsac.net>
	<4817369D.6040007@onera.fr>
Message-ID: <20080429150424.GB9282@molly.corsac.net>

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 02:54:21PM +0000, jouke hijlkema wrote:
> I'll do that ... but that doesn't explain why twinview is no longer 
> working when starting xfce through gdm. I checked but the problem i sthe 
> same with kdm or xdm ....

Well, yeah, I dont know twinview, and I don't know how binary drivers support
randr 1.2

You may want to try (when you're logged in) to play with xrandr.

Cheers,
-- 
Yves-Alexis

From bjt23 at cornell.edu  Wed Apr 30 08:23:45 2008
From: bjt23 at cornell.edu (Brian J. Tarricone)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:23:45 -0700
Subject: xfdesktop testing stuff
Message-ID: <20080429232345.2bbfc00e@kepler>

Hey all,

I just committed some experimental support for xrandr 1.2 (hot-plugging
monitors) to xfdesktop svn trunk.  The upside is that it was very easy
to do; the downside is that you need gtk 2.13.0 or above to use it.  As
I'm not really in the mood to break my system, and I'm not even sure
that the external monitor port on my laptop works, I haven't tested it.

For starters, I want to make sure nothing broke.  If you have a
multi-head setup and are using xfdesktop svn, please update and tell me
if it still works ok.  I also maybe (maybe!) fixed the 'stretch backdrop
across all monitors' option, so test that as well, I guess.

If you're incredibly brave (read: foolish) and want to install
gtk 2.13.0 and report back as to whether adding and removing monitors
works, that would be cool too.

	-brian

From mmassonnet at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 11:25:18 2008
From: mmassonnet at gmail.com (Mike Massonnet)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:25:18 +0200
Subject: Xfconf channel/property names
Message-ID: <20080430092518.GD13205@failure.del>

Hi,

Why can't a channel name have a slash?  Right now, the channel name can't have
slashes, while the property name can.  In the way I introduced xfconf in
xfce4-notes-plugin, I started with the following channel names:
  * /Xfce4NotesPlugin/PanelPlugin
  * /Xfce4NotesPlugin/NewWindow

Actually it isn't a matter how they are named, I already switched to defines in
the code and with the following n